Air Traffic Control (Aviation Disaster thread)

[Waraji]

Lubitz

[thetruepandagod]

If only, but no it's a german surname. And the guy is german/slav.

Today i learned a new german phrase.

erweiterter suizid = enhanced suicide. They are referring to it as that since it's not being called a terrorist attack atm.

[Sho]

Holy shit. This really makes me uncomfortable flying right now. It seems the co-pilot was well aware of what he was doing and the lives in his hands that he took. Crazy shit...

[Mazmaz]

It's not a terrorist attack since he's white guys, duh

[Aksannyi]

Has anyone said it's not an act of terrorism? Because this basically fits the definition pretty readily. The only thing I read was that the guy was not affiliated with any terrorist groups. That doesn't mean he can't be counted as a "lone-wolf" terrorist, like Ted Kaczynski.

[Raldo]

It's hard to attribute "terrorism" to an act of a lone person that also wound up killing themselves, in my opinion anyway. I guess it depends on your definition of terrorism. Google says "the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims", of which this definitely is not (unless more info comes out indicating that). Even at its most base definition (terrorism - inflicting terror) doesn't really apply. I'm certainly not terrified of a dead guy if this event wasn't due to some sort of group affiliation.

Also, it's not really similar to Ted Kaczynski since he was, you know, still around to commit more terror.

I guess it could be one-time-use terrorism? Not very scary.

[Sho]

Has anyone said it's not an act of terrorism? Because this basically fits the definition pretty readily. The only thing I read was that the guy was not affiliated with any terrorist groups. That doesn't mean he can't be counted as a "lone-wolf" terrorist, like Ted Kaczynski.

It's hasn't been formally announced as an act of terrorism, but one could definitely guess that it might be. It was a deliberate crashing -- it's gone on record that this couldn't simply be accidental. The pilot was locked out of the cockpit, and forcing the plane to descend is something you have to do by turning a switch, vs accidentally pushing a button.

France just called in the FBI, so we will definitely know what's up in the coming days and weeks.

[Aksannyi]

That's more my assumption, the fact that it was a deliberate choice to take 150 lives rather than accidental qualifies it as terrorism. Then again, I am no expert. My bf, who has a Masters in Poli Sci and is actually working on a PhD relating to international terrorism would know, but he hasn't answered my texts about it yet. I think he's in class but I'm interested to hear his opinion.

[Sho]

I think connecting this to terrorism will happen (or not) with the FBI's help. They'll have to go far back into this guy's life and flight training to see if he has any connections to Al-Qaeda and the guys behind the Sept 11 attacks. It'll be a done deal if they find any viable connection.

[kuronosan]

What the hell...

[Andalusian girls]

It's hard to attribute "terrorism" to an act of a lone person that also wound up killing themselves, in my opinion anyway. I guess it depends on your definition of terrorism. Google says "the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims", of which this definitely is not (unless more info comes out indicating that). Even at its most base definition (terrorism - inflicting terror) doesn't really apply. I'm certainly not terrified of a dead guy if this event wasn't due to some sort of group affiliation.

Also, it's not really similar to Ted Kaczynski since he was, you know, still around to commit more terror.

I guess it could be one-time-use terrorism? Not very scary.

for an act of violence to qualify as a terrorism it must be done to engender some political, ideological, or religious end. the amount of victims is irrelevant, the amount of perpetrators is irrelevant, the fact that it was mass murder by suicide is irrelevant. all that matters now is determining the motivation of the individual in question

[6souls]

It looks like pilot suicide is a more "common" thing now.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_pilot

[ronin sparthos]

for an act of violence to qualify as a terrorism it must be done to engender some political, ideological, or religious end. the amount of victims is irrelevant, the amount of perpetrators is irrelevant, the fact that it was mass murder by suicide is irrelevant. all that matters now is determining the motivation of the individual in question

This right here.

As it stands, it looks like a murder-suicide. Throwing around terrorism without a political or religious end is speculation. You'd think a co-pilot holed up in a cockpit by himself would throw out some ideological bait if he indeed had some end to serve. Usually involving evoking God or what have you.

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/lastwords.htm

If you want to hear some pre-crash CVRs.

[NynJa]

Unless a terrorist group comes forward saying the pilot did his job in getting rid of western scum (or whatever the european equivalent is), I'm gonna go with suicidal pilot, especially since there was absolutely no mention of doing this for a higher power or whatever.

[ronin sparthos]

WOOP WOOP *pull up* WOOP WOOP *pull up* is now going in my nightmare fuel folder.

[Kerberoz]

WOOP WOOP pull up or dat ass go splat

[Jaybar]

Still safer to fly than to drive.

[Acevalefor]

To put some perspective on the mental stress of a co-pilot for a regional/small airline:

You go to school, do your flight training, spend $200K+ over 6 years to do this. You then get a job at a regional airline where YOU PAY THEM FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF ACCRUING HOURS, live in airports, eat ramen and saltine crackers for 5+ years before you can even consider getting a paid job. The airline just says 'fuck you' when you start to crack under the stress of being homeless and in more debt than most doctors. Now, most airlines will pay you instead of making you pay them to accrue hours, but the pay is so meager that you are better off not getting a Pilot License at all and working for Walmart the rest of your life. Pilots fly because they love it and are addicted. They cannot stay on the ground after them experience their first flight. This is what the industry relies on to completely screw all but the most senior pilots. If you can hold on for 10 years making absolutely nothing and having your life ruined at every turn because of your debt, then you stand a chance of having enough seniority to move up and get the good paying positions.

Some of that was generalized, but the point is that the airline industry is desperate for pilots. In the next 6 years, over half of the qualified pilots in the world will be retiring. In North America alone, we need 5000 pilots per year just to fill the upcoming vacancies. We only get about 3000/yr. The cost for a pilot to get into the industry is still the same and airlines are unwilling to change the model that was created under Reagan and has contributed to such terrible stresses that some Pilots think it is ok to kill hundreds of people in a suicide meant to send a message to the airline. I am not saying that is what happened here, but it does happen a few times per year.

The psychological stress is huge. The debt and the stress are what made me decide against continuing with my pilot training. Maybe the Co-pilot, who was only 28 so he could not have been involved in the 9/11 stuff, just lost his shit and wanted to make a statement with his suicide. Maybe he had another agenda altogether.

[Petitssk]

[...]

I'll need to check the details, but as far as I know, pilots in Germany are set for life.
Especially in the case of Lufthansa, the pilots are downright hated as of late, as they've been going on strikes, making demands that are said to be outlandish when compared to pilots in other countries (or the average income/benefits in Germany).

[Enkidu]

Looks like he had some sort of illness he was keeping from the airline, also was supposed to be on medical leave the day he flew... I think it's common sense that the cockpit should never be occupied by just one person though, not even just thinking about it in hindsight. Why not just have a flight attendant required to sit in the cockpit if a pilot/copilot needs to leave for whatever reason? That should protect against any sort of situation like medical emergencies and such, obviously this could have been avoided if that were the case.