Delve 2.0 discussion

[NynJa]

If Aura were able to be removed consistently without a degree of luck, sure. Cept on tree, you have to deal with holy water spam if you dont take it off quick enough. On bird, you die.

[Dotsudoku]

If you're unable to consistently remove the aura from the tree, you're going to die to that too

You also seem to have an inflated image of Zapdos' AoE damage. It's annoying, but it's not 1-hit KO material. I take ~600 on PLD without shell

[Yeager]

Failing to see what you're asking, there is no goal if you're fighting outside the fracture other than the 20 minute time limit.

If you're practicing outside before fighting inside then a pure melee based setup is only relevant to Yorcia, and the Yorcia T5 can take 3mins or 10mins depending on much it uses charm/amnesia.

Marjami is rng only if you're practicing for inside, and the megaboss is pretty much rng only if you are beading for it also.

Kamihr is a ~4min kill with 3 melees. However you wouldn't bead it anyway since T1 2 and 4 are all far more annoying to kill.

I apologize if my question seemed vague.

The reason why I was asking about how long it took for a standard party to kill the T5 NMs is because my LS used a Pet Job strategy on all 3 T5 NMs. BST, SMN, and PUP with COR support and a couple extras. (SCH, WHM, THF for TH)

I wanted to see if our kill times were comparable to others who use standard (non-pet job) setups.

[Alistrianna]

You have to remember that outside NM have 1/3 the maximum HP of NM inside the fracture. Your 12-18 person pet kills are going to take far longer inside the fracture.

[NynJa]

I take ~600 on PLD without shell

And now when you factor out DT and Aegis, thats how much damage?

[Yeager]

You have to remember that outside NM have 1/3 the maximum HP of NM inside the fracture. Your 12-18 person pet kills are going to take far longer inside the fracture.

We did Marjami T5 with 9. The other two we had a bunch more because a lot needed the Key Item.

We'll try again with lower numbers to see how we do. The 9man T5 in Marjami took 11 minutes.

[Fwahm]

If you did that same fight inside the fracture, the Marjami T5 would take 16.5 minutes.

[dasva]

You also seem to have an inflated image of Zapdos' AoE damage. It's annoying, but it's not 1-hit KO material. I take ~600 on PLD without shell

That statement by itself doesn't say much. My normal tanking set with aegis almost caps it's mdt

[Yeager]

If you did that same fight inside the fracture, the Marjami T5 would take 16.5 minutes.

Damn! Guess we still have some work to do then.

[Systematicchaos]

If Aura were able to be removed consistently without a degree of luck, sure. Cept on tree, you have to deal with holy water spam if you dont take it off quick enough. On bird, you die.

Is it really luck based? Perhaps luck on your spell resisting, but magic bursting a T5 spell of the appropriate element in each zone has brought down the Aura every time assuming no resist (Which we've only had 1 resist in several runs). The boss could definitely WS again before you get that off and it could be a bad one, sure. But the Aura should be up for no more than 10 seconds at most.

[Fake]

I apologize if my question seemed vague.

The reason why I was asking about how long it took for a standard party to kill the T5 NMs is because my LS used a Pet Job strategy on all 3 T5 NMs. BST, SMN, and PUP with COR support and a couple extras. (SCH, WHM, THF for TH)

I wanted to see if our kill times were comparable to others who use standard (non-pet job) setups.

Pet jobs will not compare to melee/rng setups in kill speed ever.

They will be slow and inefficient no matter how pro your bst and pup are. Smn can do decent damage now, relative to other pet jobs, not when compared to an equivalent melee with proper buffs.

11 Minutes is extremely slow for Harpy, especially considering you have 9 people, inside fracture that would translate into being even further off the required pace.

[Yeager]

Pet jobs will not compare to melee/rng setups in kill speed ever.

They will be slow and inefficient no matter how pro your bst and pup are. Smn can do decent damage now, relative to other pet jobs, not when compared to an equivalent melee with proper buffs.

11 Minutes is extremely slow for Harpy, especially considering you have 9 people, inside fracture that would translate into being even further off the required pace.

Well, we're not really concerned with "efficiency". Also, take into consideration that of the people that were there on pet jobs, the BSTs were able to summon 119 pets, and only 1 of the PUPs has the 119 Animator. All the SMNs and the rest of the PUPs only have 115 Satchets/Animators.

We are working as much as we can to build everyone up to 117 Satchets/Animators, and eventually 119. Once we get to that point, our kill speed should be much faster. But considering the fact that not all of us have top of the line gear, the fact we still were able to kill it was still a surprise even to me. The CORs make a huge difference.

[Fake]

Even with those extra pieces of gear people are missing, you won't be approaching the required kill speed to beat fractures.

Also assuming you are doing this to farm gear, you'd be many times better off entering fracture and taking a longer kill in there because they have 100% drop rate on a single piece.

[NynJa]

If you want to get clears for multiple mules, get beads and just get one clear.

But if pet run didnt work in Cirdas Delve at 119, its not gonna work in Yorcia Delve.

[Yeager]

Even with those extra pieces of gear people are missing, you won't be approaching the required kill speed to beat fractures.

Also assuming you are doing this to farm gear, you'd be many times better off entering fracture and taking a longer kill in there because they have 100% drop rate on a single piece.

Yeah, that's the idea. We initially wanted to go for the T5 first to see if we would even be able to do it. We still need to try out the other tier NMs to develop battle strats. We do have the T1 Colibri pet job strategy down to an artform. Just a matter of timing SMN BP when it's casting. Takes about 3-4 minutes.

[Dotsudoku]

And now when you factor out DT and Aegis, thats how much damage?

The point is that it won't kill anyone faster than the tree would. Going from capped to capped with Aegis doesn't mean everyone's suddenly getting one-shotted

Neither fight is particularly melee-friendly if the auras can't be broken consistently. End of story.

[Fwahm]

Going from capped with Aegis to capped without aegis literally quadruples the damage you take. Most melees don't have 2400 HP, and I doubt they'll have that even after the update unless mantra is up (which can get dispelled).

[Dotsudoku]

Forgot how to %. Disregard the damage, don't disregard the point. Neither fight is melee-friendly if the auras stay up.

[Fwahm]

It's unreasonable to expect that the auras won't be up for at least 10 seconds or so even if your SC and nuker groups are perfect. If you're unlucky enough that Timbeeer goes off in that time, a melee oriented group can spam holy waters and it's generally fine.

If you're unlucky enough that Static Prison goes off, it's very likely that everyone dies unless Mantra was up, everyone was at full hp, and everyone had 50% MDT at the time.

[Dotsudoku]

Disagree, but that's fine. No sense in arguing about it.