Delve 2.0 discussion

[matix]

We have gone from wild speculations to "if hate goes wild" to "if you WS its face"... yet we haven't gotten to a 100% answer on that NM yet.

leveled up when i died on sch yesterday(had to claim it and move it away from our group after some messy stuff), but seen it level many times before w/o a single death so take what you want from that :<

[Yeager]

So, my group and I tried out Marjami Ravine for the first time. Nothing major or serious as it was very much a dry run (no RNGs, used MNKs a DRG, COR BRD SCH) T1-T3 were non issues.

However, the T4.....I was back tanking it (on RUN btw) with relative ease. But the MNKs and DRG noticed something peculiar with it's Water Spikes. The damage from Water Spikes kept creeping up. I tried looking for a reason as to why this was happening, but found no information on it. We theorized that the damage went up for each weaponskill used on it. At it's highest point, Water Spikes was doing 320 dmg per hit. The MNKs were getting dropped fast by it.

Anyone know anything about this?

[Prothescar]

I haven't been able to determine what causes the spikes to... spike... either. So far the only workaround I've found is using RNGs instead of melees and an aegis PLD or RUN to tank. Have theorized that it has something to do with casting magic/enfeebles on it, but not enough data to verify.

[Fake]

So, my group and I tried out Marjami Ravine for the first time. Nothing major or serious as it was very much a dry run (no RNGs, used MNKs a DRG, COR BRD SCH) T1-T3 were non issues.

However, the T4.....I was back tanking it (on RUN btw) with relative ease. But the MNKs and DRG noticed something peculiar with it's Water Spikes. The damage from Water Spikes kept creeping up. I tried looking for a reason as to why this was happening, but found no information on it. We theorized that the damage went up for each weaponskill used on it. At it's highest point, Water Spikes was doing 320 dmg per hit. The MNKs were getting dropped fast by it.

Anyone know anything about this?

Dry run or not, if you have any hopes of clearing the zone, you're completely wasting your time with melee based setups.

[dasva]

I fought it once all the way to time out and the spikes were kinda weird. They'd go up and back down couldn't really tell why exactly but they were all over the place. Though never that scary

[Yeager]

Dry run or not, if you have any hopes of clearing the zone, you're completely wasting your time with melee based setups.

I guess I should clarify. We were doing it for FUN. We knew we didn't have much of a shot at winning. The main goals were to see if we could at least clear the first 3 NMs and see how well RUN performs as a tank.

@Dasva - I'll ask my mages if they were casting any enfeebling magic on the Penguin when I get home.

[dasva]

@Dasva - I'll ask my mages if they were casting any enfeebling magic on the Penguin when I get home.

As far as enfeebles go the only thing I really kept on with any consistency was dia since I was triboxing. Flash was on a bit too but yeah. Occasionally I'd try para and such but kinda iffy with a whm mule that isn't fully skilled up and doesn't have an enfeeble set

[Yeager]

As far as enfeebles go the only thing I really kept on with any consistency was dia since I was triboxing. Flash was on a bit too but yeah. Occasionally I'd try para and such but kinda iffy with a whm mule that isn't fully skilled up and doesn't have an enfeeble set

Testing has been conducted and we've found out why the Water Spikes damage got so high.

Basically, any Thunder based damage will increase the Water Spike effect. Enthunder, any Thunder nukes, and Thunder based Runes from RUN (which I was guilty of) will increase the Water Spike damage.

In order to lower it, water based nukes, Enwater, and RUN's Unda will lower the effect, eventually all the way down to 0.

*Edit* - Further testing has been done. ANY damaging spells that are not Water will increase the Water Spikes effect. This also includes all skill chain damage except for Reverberation.

[NynJa]

I guess I should clarify. We were doing it for FUN. We knew we didn't have much of a shot at winning. The main goals were to see if we could at least clear the first 3 NMs and see how well RUN performs as a tank.

The difficulty scale between 1-3 and 4-5 is pretty substantial.

*Edit* - Further testing has been done. ANY damaging spells that are not Water will increase the Water Spikes effect. This also includes all skill chain damage except for Reverberation.

Wouldnt that imply that dealing strictly physical damage cause spikes to not go up as well?

[Yeager]

The difficulty scale between 1-3 and 4-5 is pretty substantial.



Wouldnt that imply that dealing strictly physical damage cause spikes to not go up as well?

Standard melee attacks (no enspell, or Runes) did not seem to increase the spike effect. At least as far as we noticed. But thanks for pointing out another variable that we overlooked!

We already disbanded the party for the night. I'll test this tomorrow.

Also....

The difficulty scale between 1-3 and 4-5 is pretty substantial.

I failed to mention, we killed T1-3 in 19 minutes total. It took us several minutes to find the T4. We engaged the T4 at the 25 minute mark, and got it down to 55% in about 4 minutes. But then the Water Spikes became a major issue and began wiping out the DDs. We just used the warp items and warped out.

[Fake]

I guess I should clarify. We were doing it for FUN. We knew we didn't have much of a shot at winning. The main goals were to see if we could at least clear the first 3 NMs and see how well RUN performs as a tank.

@Dasva - I'll ask my mages if they were casting any enfeebling magic on the Penguin when I get home.

Except that the t1-t3 we already knew could be tanked by any half decent melee, so all you've found out that RUN is at least as capable as a mnk with oats or a sam with tsurumaru. Congrats, thats a big discovery.

19mins is also incredibly slow for t1-3

[Kainstryder]

Using melee with a RUN tank doesn't show you anything. You need to be using RNGs. Also your true test should be to see if you can reliably clear T5 with RUN, not 1-3, followed by the boss.

Also, unlike Delve 1, NMs are always in the same spot. For a quick reference point to help speed up your time in the zone:

Upon entry, Colibri should be straight ahead. Have RUN pull to entrance while buffs happen. Kill and then follow path and go north, camp at tunnel and kill Bat NM. Continue east, camp at hollow tree log for T3. Upon death, head SE or south and hug left till you head down a path east. South when able all the way till you loop around to the east, a tree trunk is visible. Tank there, RNG and support back to the west. Both NMs will be south of you, use widescan. When both are dead, back west and north, and when able, east and camp right in the hallway for the boss.

To avoid time loss with adds, have a COR sack them. Preferably after Tulfaire is pulled for the first time, COR runs SW and dies, have RNGs etc kill the few wanderers that stray back. Sack a 2nd time after arriving at the 4th NM camp, running back north with apkallu and any bats. Sack again after Apkallu NM is pulled, going south past where RUN is holding the NM. Sack the same way for the Harpy. Sack again on mega boss if necessary, although you'll usually only get 1-2 adds surprisingly.

I'm not sure how well a RUN can tank with a bunch of adds on them, so it may just be faster for you to have adds killed instead of sacking, as by the time you do Tulfaire you'll have 8-10 mobs I think.

[pancakesandsex]

Something that might be useful info, my reaving wind landed 100% of the time on belladonna. Would use it every time she charmed and ppl started turning so no chance for tp moves after.

Really appreciate this. This will significantly increase the margin for error on the T5.

Slightly off topic, but if you cast reaving wind on a mob while it's charging a tp move with a long cast time, will it interrupt?

[Limlight]

Using melee with a RUN tank doesn't show you anything. You need to be using RNGs. Also your true test should be to see if you can reliably clear T5 with RUN, not 1-3, followed by the boss.

Also, unlike Delve 1, NMs are always in the same spot. For a quick reference point to help speed up your time in the zone:

Upon entry, Colibri should be straight ahead. Have RUN pull to entrance while buffs happen. Kill and then follow path and go north, camp at tunnel and kill Bat NM. Continue east, camp at hollow tree log for T3. Upon death, head SE or south and hug left till you head down a path east. South when able all the way till you loop around to the east, a tree trunk is visible. Tank there, RNG and support back to the west. Both NMs will be south of you, use widescan. When both are dead, back west and north, and when able, east and camp right in the hallway for the boss.

To avoid time loss with adds, have a COR sack them. Preferably after Tulfaire is pulled for the first time, COR runs SW and dies, have RNGs etc kill the few wanderers that stray back. Sack a 2nd time after arriving at the 4th NM camp, running back north with apkallu and any bats. Sack again after Apkallu NM is pulled, going south past where RUN is holding the NM. Sack the same way for the Harpy. Sack again on mega boss if necessary, although you'll usually only get 1-2 adds surprisingly.

I'm not sure how well a RUN can tank with a bunch of adds on them, so it may just be faster for you to have adds killed instead of sacking, as by the time you do Tulfaire you'll have 8-10 mobs I think.

it seems that having the cor sack just to have a run tank is already almost making it not worth it. Also killing the adds is a huge timesink. Have the bard sleep and log off.

[Kainstryder]

We've agreed it's not worth it, but if the guy's going to do it as RUN, I'm offering suggestions. BRD works better than COR, but if you don't sleep correctly in a good spot or survive long enough, it goes south quickly, not to mention pathing issues for Marjami. COR sacking, at least for my group, works fine.

[ccl]

People have already been doing marja delve with run+ rng since, weeks

[Foldypaws]

Slightly off topic, but if you cast reaving wind on a mob while it's charging a tp move with a long cast time, will it interrupt?

No.

[Yeager]

Except that the t1-t3 we already knew could be tanked by any half decent melee, so all you've found out that RUN is at least as capable as a mnk with oats or a sam with tsurumaru. Congrats, thats a big discovery.

19mins is also incredibly slow for t1-3

Is this all you do Fake? Tell others they suck? What if I said we killed the bird in 2 minutes? You'd probably come back and say "OMGURDOINITWRONG! 1 MINUTE KILL OR GTFO GIMP!"

I was simply asking for suggestions, help, and we ended up finding out some information (and posted) about the T4 Penguin that hadn't been previously discovered (to our knowledge) and instead you feel the need to shoot me and my group down.

[Fake]

If you want suggestions then perhaps actually follow advice that will lead you to some degree of success. The fun card is like religion and can be pulled out at any point when someone wants to defy logic and you just played it.

Being able to kill penguin with melees is entirely pointless since you will not be using them on the boss.

I'm aware I spend a lot of time telling people they suck, which they generally do, but I was also one of the most prolific posters of various information when delve was released. I provide real world suggestions and strategies that aren't based on amateur hour theorycrafting.

[Yeager]

If you want suggestions then perhaps actually follow advice that will lead you to some degree of success. The fun card is like religion and can be pulled out at any point when someone wants to defy logic and you just played it.

Being able to kill penguin with melees is entirely pointless since you will not be using them on the boss.

How about we do this instead? Since your name is "Fake" I'll take anything you say as "Fake" information and complete utter bullshit.

I thank Dasva, who is probably the only BG poster who actually cares, for trying to help me and my group.