Job Points discussion

[Ihina]

Well that was a terrible post. You did nothing to address my post and only used it as opportunity to continue to whine by repeating the same point made over and over again already in this thread.

[scaevola]

You expect me to seriously engage with the idea that SE is playing 5th dimensional chess with our expectations?

There are screenshots on this very forum of people with 500 million gil or more just sitting in their equipment menus, so obviously nobody's driven to accumulate by the existence of a cap.

[Ihina]

No(but talking about the actual point would have been nice) and yes.

[scaevola]

So if you don't think SE released it at this tempo with the intention of making it easier in a couple months, would you agree that it's just a run-of-the-mill fuckup?

(but talking about the actual point would have been nice)

I can't speak for anybody else, but I CAN say that

1) I was not especially bothered by the fact that I had not capped STR merits before Abyssea - 5 STR is 5 STR, after all - and

2) the fact that people do shit like run up half-billion gil bankrolls and don't do anything with them, or finish mythics and then make another, suggests that there's a significant portion of the 11 population not dissuaded by the impossibility of being "done". Hell, the very fact that we're still here after 11 years is testament to that.

[dasva]

JP will enhance better abilities than circle effects down the line, certainly, but there is no reason to think those enhancements won't be as trivial as the ones we have right now. After all, circle effects being largely useless doesn't mean SE couldn't have made the enhancements to them more attractive (like a 1% increase/rank to all three aspects, not just -DT) if they wanted to.

Actually I was speaking of the progression of cost... it's still not really known past 4. So worst case scenario assumptions are just that. It could 1,2,3,4,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5 etc. Turning the 500 hour estimate down 131. Then they can in a little bit appear to be the good guys and lower that down to 40 and make more jobs actually have good things. And make it come out of more events and such so there is even less of a need to grind to get the jps... though really if you are actually farming just for them and not for merits or pops or whatever I feel for ya son. Then if we still complain they lower it some more until they find our acceptable point which after it being even worse will more than likely be higher than if they had just started lower. Basically haggling on there part. How much of our time can they waste for how much time they would have to spend creating content

[Ihina]

So if you don't think SE released it at this tempo with the intention of making it easier in a couple months, would you agree that it's just a run-of-the-mill fuckup?



I can't speak for anybody else, but I CAN say that

1) I was not especially bothered by the fact that I had not capped STR merits before Abyssea - 5 STR is 5 STR, after all - and

2) the fact that people do shit like run up half-billion gil bankrolls and don't do anything with them, or finish mythics and then make another, suggests that there's a significant portion of the 11 population not dissuaded by the impossibility of being "done". Hell, the very fact that we're still here after 11 years is testament to that.

I think you need to calm down. I'm not saying any of that.

[scaevola]

Actually I was speaking of the progression of cost... it's still not really known past 4. So worst case scenario assumptions are just that. It could 1,2,3,4,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5 etc. Turning the 500 hour estimate down 131.

Sure, but I want to point out that 24 hours ago you were like "well, maybe they're 1,2,3,3,3,3,3 etc." and we saw how that worked out, so at this point I'd rather yell until I get an up or down from Camate; fair?

Then they can in a little bit appear to be the good guys and lower that down to 40 and make more jobs actually have good things.

Dasva, I like you, so please don't take it as an attack when I say that if you take nothing else away from this thread, you should realize that this argument about how Square is setting up an abusive system they have every reason to believe people will engage in anyway, to their detriment (lol pandemonium warden 1.0), but we shouldn't be bothered by it because they'll make it easier once they're satisfied that we'll be sufficiently appreciative, somehow manages to resemble both deep paranoia and Stockholm Syndrome, so maybe you should think about that...?

And make it come out of more events and such so there is even less of a need to grind to get the jps... though really if you are actually farming just for them and not for merits or pops or whatever I feel for ya son.

If you've even got a 5:1 XP:CP ratio, that's some 65 million XP to cap a category at 30 by my reckoning. Even if by some miracle you eventually get the right answer on a next-rank-requirement plateau, you're still looking at tens of millions of XP for one category and after that, you've got however many more.

How many merits and pop items do you really see yourself needing from now until you die? You're gonna be straight grinding for JPs and JPs alone eventually.

Then if we still complain they lower it some more until they find our acceptable point which after it being even worse will more than likely be higher than if they had just started lower. Basically haggling on there part. How much of our time can they waste for how much time they would have to spend creating content

The thing is, if they want this to be a successful system that actually makes the game more fun, they WILL lower the requirements. I would rather they do it sooner than later, and not for my sake; for the sake of the sads who are actually trying to get JP right now and are better off having that work undermined as quickly as possible.

[scaevola]

I think you need to calm down. I'm not saying any of that.

Then what are you taking issue with? I don't know how many ways I can say "people who play the same video game for 11 years are not greatly discouraged by a lack of closure".

[Ihina]

The fact that you think I must take issue with something rather than simply want to talk about the system means I should probably stop wasting my time with you.

I'll chime in next time I hit a new landmark in jp/hr!

[dasva]

Sure, but I want to point out that 24 hours ago you were like "well, maybe they're 1,2,3,3,3,3,3 etc." and we saw how that worked out, so at this point I'd rather yell until I get an up or down from Camate; fair?

I merely listed it as a possibility. Theoretically it could be 1,2,3,4,4,4 but that's just weird. Either way my point is that the high amount listed is still highly speculative. Not to mention completely out of line with anything they've done before.

Dasva, I like you, so please don't take it as an attack when I say that if you take nothing else away from this thread, you should realize that this argument about how Square is setting up an abusive system they have every reason to believe people will engage in anyway, to their detriment (lol pandemonium warden 1.0), but we shouldn't be bothered by it because they'll make it easier once they're satisfied that we'll be sufficiently appreciative, somehow manages to resemble both deep paranoia and Stockholm Syndrome, so maybe you should think about that...?

whoa whoa I never said we shouldn't be bothered. I'm just offering an explanation of how they could very well be doing it on purpose and in a way that would in the end benefit them.

If you've even got a 5:1 XP:CP ratio, that's some 65 million XP to cap a category at 30 by my reckoning. Even if by some miracle you eventually get the right answer on a next-rank-requirement plateau, you're still looking at tens of millions of XP for one category and after that, you've got however many more.

How many merits and pop items do you really see yourself needing from now until you die? You're gonna be straight grinding for JPs and JPs alone eventually.

Well let's see using the more conservative estimate would be 21 million xp. Which comes out to 2100 merits which before the last adjustment would have been enough for you to do each AA 21 times . That said take the context of the whole sentence where I mention how they have already said adjustments on how you can procure them are changing. So in all reality unless they just go nope then it's not going to be that bad. With this in mind other than to see what's over the mountain why would you grind now? Spend more time getting what will most likely be some of the more meh jps out there when you know improvements are on the horizon. Especially since SE has often stated they watch how much we do content to determine how it should be adjusted or how they didn't adjust alex for some long because so many people got it

The thing is, if they want this to be a successful system that actually makes the game more fun, they WILL lower the requirements. I would rather they do it sooner than later, and not for my sake; for the sake of the sads who are actually trying to get JP right now and are better off having that work undermined as quickly as possible.

Again none of this was in defense of SE but more of a possible explanation behind why they might do this and how they are trying to make there work stretch as far as us players allow them to. They also have a history of starting out hard to take up the time of the hardcore then making things easier, less costly, and/or less time consuming later to allow greater access to the masses after the hardcore players got in there. My main point on that line is this probably isn't by mistake but by design. Also in an roundabout way it's also a message about how important it is to provide good, clear, accurate player input on the problem. Because if we didn't they definitely would take that as a we'll accept it and leave it.

[dasva]

I'll chime in next time I hit a new landmark in jp/hr!

How many jps did you get!?!

[scaevola]

I merely listed it as a possibility. Theoretically it could be 1,2,3,4,4,4 but that's just weird. Either way my point is that the high amount listed is still highly speculative. Not to mention completely out of line with anything they've done before.

It's pretty simple, man: if you never need to spend more than 5 JP for an upgrade rank, there is no reason for the reserve to cap at 200.

Again none of this was in defense of SE but more of a possible explanation behind why they might do this and how they are trying to make there work stretch as far as us players allow them to. They also have a history of starting out hard to take up the time of the hardcore then making things easier, less costly, and/or less time consuming later to allow greater access to the masses after the hardcore players got in there. My main point on that line is this probably isn't by mistake but by design. Also in an roundabout way it's also a message about how important it is to provide good, clear, accurate player input on the problem. Because if we didn't they definitely would take that as a we'll accept it and leave it.

Why attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence?

[dasva]

It's pretty simple, man: if you never need to spend more than 5 JP for an upgrade rank, there is no reason for the reserve to cap at 200.

That is a very tenous line of reasoning at best... also by that logic why only 30 for the most?

Why attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence?

Previous history. Also I'm nowhere near attributing it to malice. It's a simple business decision. They are in the business of spending there time in effort to create stuff for us to do so we will spend money to be allowed to do it. So in a way there job is to be able to create something that will take us the most time to complete for the amount of time they put into it. Of course the at the same time our participation and paying are voluntary so there is the need to make low enough where people will actually want to do it but they will most likely want to err high

[Draylo]

Not sure if it was discussed but it seems that JP required go up per level. Currently at 6/10 BLU magic bonus points and next level is 7 JP lol

[Darkmagi]

That's totally horrible, they really need to revamp this.

[Ophannus]

I used MyProject to solo lvl117 Twitheryms in Outer overnight thinking I'd rake in a ton of JPs. Literally nonstop soloing of those things for 8-9 hours got me...like 2.5 JP. I think they give ~160CP each. Pretty terrible, and that's on a job which CAN solo high level mobs safety and relatively fast. Can't imagine trying to get JP on a support job like GEO or BRD. I know partying is about 2-3x faster but they're also more annoying to organize. If JP were about as fast to accumulate as merits were at 75, it wouldn't be so bad, but ~350CP in a party and it costs 30,000 to get 1 point makes it 3x harder than meriting was(since Colibri at 75 gave ~250-290 I think and 1Merit=10,000LP. They need chain mulktipliers for JP or reduce the # of CP it takes to acquire 1 JP. If anything it should be a 1:1 like how EXP/Limit Points are since unlike Merits, we have to BE on the job we want to upgrade, which can be annoying for support jobs.

I guess in a way it will kind of force players who want to upgrade their jobs to forcibly play those jobs and 'git gud' since 100's of hours of getting CP/JP on their job might make them play their job better similar to how 1-75 grind supposedly made players better than abyssea burned players. So now if you want WHM job points, you can't just burn them like you did for merits on your WAR or MNK, you actually have to play the damned job.

[dasva]

Not sure if it was discussed but it seems that JP required go up per level. Currently at 6/10 BLU magic bonus points and next level is 7 JP lol

Even if it stops at 7 that is terrible. That's rediculous...

[Sechs]

Not sure if it has been said but I was surprised to be getting JPs in Dynamis yesterday. Like 80ish Capacity Points per kill in Tavnazia

[Trumpy]

Yea i noticed JPs in Dynamis Dunes as well couple days ago. also i really wish there was a better abbreviation for Job Points. Feel like people are gonna start usign Jap instead of JP for japanese players and it will lead to all kinds of shenanigans lol!

[dasva]

Yea i noticed JPs in Dynamis Dunes as well couple days ago. also i really wish there was a better abbreviation for Job Points. Feel like people are gonna start usign Jap instead of JP for japanese players and it will lead to all kinds of shenanigans lol!

Even if we keep Japanese as jp it will still lead to shenanigans. Jp party do you need it? looking for jp mnk lol. Abyssea jp leech