Job Points discussion

[NynJa]

I dont think at this point its considered "pussing out and appeasing the whiny masses". Knowing now that job point level progression is level+1, at higher levels you're looking at a massive grind (under the presumption of being able to attain 30k cp/hr). A level 7 upgrade, which is no more potent than a level 1 upgrade, is 7 hours of grinding...for TWO more attack while under the effect of Berserk. Presuming you cap out the whole Berserk upgrade, thats 55 hours of grinding for attack+20 under the effect of berserk.

I'm still doubting the 80k/hr claims, since I dont believe theres any area that has 20 mobs (15 seconds per kill, 5 min repop) in close proximity

If anyones going to say "you defended this before", I'm gonna say it again, at the time it wasnt known how the upgrade progression would work, if it would go 1-2-3-3-3, 1-2-3-4-5-5-5-5, or 1-2-3...9-10.

[doctorugh]

I'm still doubting the 80k/hr claims, since I dont believe theres any area that has 20 mobs (15 seconds per kill, 5 min repop) in close proximity

????

[NynJa]

http://www.evilmilk.com/pictures/Pc_Load_Letter.jpg

[ronin sparthos]

Job points seem like something that could cause me to return to the game shortly. Waiting to see how badly they puss out on it to appease all the whiny asses. But if it turns out to be a sign of returning to a longer plateau period at specific item levels with more horizontal progression I would possibly like playing this game again.

Until the system delivers more tangible rewards for unit hour of grind, job points are not worth the time spent. I get we don't want Abyssea 2.0: AFK all the things but the bonuses for most jobs are laughable Tanaka-era stupidity.

I thought we were past this uber situational crap. Guess not.

[Prothescar]

I'm still doubting the 80k/hr claims, since I dont believe theres any area that has 20 mobs (15 seconds per kill, 5 min repop) in close proximity

Only almost every zone in the game. Range is even less of a problem if you have a BRD or COR or something. The ancient lost art of "Pulling". Mob density isn't the issue here.

[Ihina]

I actually went and tried the old merit pt thing the other day. It was three people each dual boxing, SAM THF(me) MNK WHM BRD COR and we were going at 55k/hr. The parse was around SAM=46%, me=31%, MNK=23% damage. If you found 2 other DDs about equal to the SAM and everyone single box, I don't see how you can't go from 55k/hr to 80k/hr. We weren't even killing all the mobs we should have been killing at that camp.

Seriously, just try it. They're not even that evasive.

[20:48:17]Ihina:
[20:48:17]Average item level: 117.
[20:48:17]Primary Accuracy: 1060 / Primary Attack: 955.
[20:48:17]Auxiliary Accuracy: 1060 / Auxiliary Attack: 906.
[20:48:17]Ranged Accuracy: 0 / Ranged Attack: 0.
[20:48:17]Evasion: 778 / Defense: 866.
[20:48:19]SB: -= Accuracy (All mobs) =-
[20:48:19]SB: Ihina 82.72% (920 samples)

That's just acc gear+sushi and boost-dex against random mobs in woh. This is after the grind; during I had madrigal/hunters which put me well over cap. To all the old players that still play, 82% acc with sushi and acc gear does seem about right for an IT mob, right?


And it's not a 5 minute repop, mobs in woh repop in 3 minutes....probably less; tested just now and 2:58 from death to repop does sound a bit strange, especially considering how repop timer should start after the mob's body disappear, not when the chat log tells you the mob is dead.

[shepardG]

I'm with ihina here, get 6 players playing jobs DD,DD,DD,whm,brd,cor and we got 28k CP in like 20mins (would have kept going but we were just going for merits to do oroyu)
Could easily swap a DD job out for something that doesn't normally get invited to "meripo's" (pld,blm,pup,etc.)

It's just.... the community hasn't really gotten into actively building up CP points on jobs, cause other than merits, there's no other real gains :/ well RoE points... which... honestly, yeah maybe i'll start a shout tommorow or something lol...

[Byrthnoth]

It is possible to solo CP on some jobs to the tune of 20-30k per hour. I bet all jobs can get at least 10k per hour with the right camp.

Cap evasion, use iLevel gear, and use 2 BRD and Cherukiki trusts. Mage jobs will have to farm lower level monsters, which will hurt their CP/hr. DNC is fine against at least 110 mobs. Need to find and test a 111-112 camp if it exists to see if my CP/hr goes up.

By the way, I made an attainmentish add-on on the -dev version that tracks CP too. I cut all the features that rely on zone-specific message IDs, so it should not break. Honestly I never used attainment, so if I could get some feedback that'd be cool.

[Karbuncle]

I like the idea that Job Points can be gotten solo, or with a group, but honestly I don't want to go back to an era of merit party type combat, I had my "fun" with it for the first 8 or so years of the game. That and, it really hasn't been a big thing since ToAU, its long dead and a lot of people will have a hard time adapting back to it, minus those who masturbate to pre-abyssea... Not to mention the starving lack of competent players these days, declining population, and overall any good players you could find likely only do stuff with their LS thanks to the first point.

further hurting the point is that most good players will only want that 60-80k/hr party, so good luck getting invited if you're not a (Token) 119DD, BRD, COR, or healing class. Finding a solid merit party on say, SMN, PLD, RUN, GEO, or such, is going to be a hard task, finding one thats going to earn even 50kcp/hr is going to be near impossible. Thanks to the casual tone the game has taken, I'd be willing to bet a lot of people won't want to do Merit-party style combat for over an hour like they used too either.

I get most of you probably have a close nit of friends, or a second/third account to solo with cause foreveralone, so its easy for you to see the high end of the spectrum as reasonable, but for most people that isn't a reality, and 80k/hr would be out of their reach by a mile, some would be lucky to see 1 JP/hr. These grinds, we're talking 2004 era leveling here. Grinding crabs for 3 hours to hit level 53. I'm sorry but f**k that noise and these marginal upgrades.

I'm not hoping for a full on nerf-bat, but doubling or even tripling the amount of JP earned isn't going to collapse the idea of the system in on itself, JP will still be difficult to get, it will just be more worth the effort. The system is not impossible or the goals unobtainable, just that at the current accrual rate, its not worth the effort of dealing with 5 other idiots, trying to convince the broBRD that no its cool, SMN can do it, and so forth. Plus again, meripo style will only work so far, then people will have to switch jobs, and good luck finding at least 6 DD who also have a 3-4 song BRD, and healing class, all willing to switch between them whenever and also be perfect at each if you're looking to always have an 80k/hr party.

Again, not saying its an impossible task, but its not worth the effort to reward ratio its throwing out right now, and the only way to srsly get JP is to grind it out Merit style or solo for long periods of time. I mean when they add it to delve/etc it might come along a bit quicker, but you're still screwed if you're going to delve/etc on a job you're needed as, not the one you want too, which happens far more than not for the average player.

[JSHidaka]

I'm with ihina here, get 6 players playing jobs DD,DD,DD,whm,brd,cor and we got 28k CP in like 20mins (would have kept going but we were just going for merits to do oroyu)
Could easily swap a DD job out for something that doesn't normally get invited to "meripo's" (pld,blm,pup,etc.)

It's just.... the community hasn't really gotten into actively building up CP points on jobs, cause other than merits, there's no other real gains :/ well RoE points... which... honestly, yeah maybe i'll start a shout tommorow or something lol...

20 mins.... Hard to believe but I suppose with mobs lv124+ is possible

[Damane]

unless you have token career bard and cor you aint gonna do cp pts unless you have mules that could take that spot.

[Priran]

You already get CP from yorcia delves, and it's not much. I don't think it's perceptibly higher than you'd get from trash mobs near the veils. So adding it to cirdas delves won't fix jack. The biggest problem with CP, imo, is not the mobs you can get it from, it's that getting one JP takes enough EXP as it takes to cap merits. If it was more like how it sounded to begin with, meaning 1JP:3 merits, I wouldn't mind you can't get CP from things like voidwatch.

[dasva]

Yeah that's part of the problem... sure you might get your 80k/hr but you quickly completely cap merits and go into wasting them mode or leave and use them which now is mostly KI buying

[Ihina]

Endless whining.

[Karbuncle]

I imagine a world where people stop whining would be a perfect world, since there would be nothing to whine about.

We do not live in a perfect world, as such a thing is likely impossible, therefor logic would say people will whine.

Seems dumb to complain about it.

[Ihina]

Well I guess I'm being completely logical then.

[dasva]

Indeed whining about whining

[Karbuncle]

Now you're catching on

[Ihina]

But anyways, let's not pretend all things are equal here. It would be nice to move on from the whining most people seem to be doing on this thread and gravitate towards something more productive. Maybe if we stop whining about how hard it is to get CP, put our heads together and think about it some more, we can find ways to make grinding a bit more efficiently?

[Prothescar]

Adding a reason for more than two jobs to do the grinding to begin with would be a nice start. Just because the only job you have leveled happens to be one of the ones that benefits from this doesn't mean everyone else is in the same boat; 80k/hr is nice, until you realize that it's quite literally a waste of god damn time.