Not without my ovaries.

[Ksandra]

When people say condoms and pills I don't think is Limited to just that. That is just what comes to mind first.

i would say that depends who you are talking to. I think those who want free access to condoms would totally not mind free access to IUDs, but I think those against free condoms don't have free IUDs crossing their minds. I think they should all be free, but my point is you might have an easier time convincing others with something like an IUD because it isn't something you have to give constantly. (ie. A once in five years procedure vs. a bunch of condoms every few month will probably sound better to penny pushers.

I would like to add to this that although there is no disagreement, there has been a large push from some factions to limit/minimize the amount of sex education in public schools. Something along the lines of Abstinence being the only sex education that should be taught.

exactly. I don't care if BG are all in agreement. It is important to highlight it because of it being the bigger issue than some cap very few would reach. (imo that is)

edit: not fixing mistakes, I am posting from my phone.

[dejet]

If the school does not talk about it you better fucking teach your own kids then.

Although my schools education was good. I really did learn shit when they did the "split girls and boys" I will be teaching my kids a lot more. It's limited but it was not just abstain. It spoke of STDs condoms and all around not being stupid with sex. I think the 5th grade science teachers talked with us, don't think we had special health teachers. Still thinking back it was limited and I would want my kids to know more.

Edit: are there still people who think teaching abstinence is good? I mean for fuck sakes most of the people alive now even if they did wait for some bs marriage have been divorced and have sex after that. what the fucking rules for that. We have to be nearing the death of those types of people really soon.

[Serra]

Serial abortionists
addicted to the rush of killing fetuses

Wasn't there a character in South Park who was addicted to abortions..? For some reason I want to say Cartman dressed in drag, but that doesn't sound right..

[Pirian]

Isn't the cost of abortion disincentive enough?

And the risk of sterilization?


whoa late on this, but yeah

[Aksannyi]

Edit: are there still people who think teaching abstinence is good? I mean for fuck sakes most of the people alive now even if they did wait for some bs marriage have been divorced and have sex after that. what the fucking rules for that. We have to be nearing the death of those types of people really soon.

Yes, there are - they're mostly the religious types who believe that premarital sex is one of the worst things you can do, so rather than acknowledging that kids are going to be kids and do exactly the opposite of what their elders say and have sex, they teach abstinence and then wonder why their kids end up pregnant at 17. It goes further than that, many of the super religious also believe that contraception is wrong and that all sexual intercourse should be for the sole purpose of conceiving a child, so giving your teenagers the talk about sex and using protection is a huge no-no.

Religion is falling out of favor in a lot of areas but it's going just as strong as it ever was in several others - and I doubt religion is going away any time soon. So if the school won't teach sex ed (probably due to pressure from parents) and the parents won't teach sex ed, you end up with kids who don't know any better having sex and popping out young'uns, and parents likely to disown them for having sex outside of marriage which then leads to more poverty ... since obviously forgiveness is something foreign to some of the religious who preach that God is forgiving ...

But yes, short answer to your question is that there are quite a few people who still believe in teaching abstinence, even though it's been proven to not work. My sex education (bear in mind I went to Catholic school from K to 12th) did actually touch on birth control and STDs, but also strongly encouraged waiting until marriage. My philosophy is that you can still encourage abstinence while teaching about options that are available. "Don't do it, but if you do, here's how to protect yourself." etc.

[Cliron]

Whereas I disdain some of the earlier posts by some posters (most of which male by what I can gather)....they were generally obviously rather flawed and most people on this forum would not put much heed to it.

However, it grates me so much more when I see women berating other women (or other minorities berating themselves), thinking its for the best of them. 'Gay 1 about gay 2: Oh She is too camp...', or 'Black guy 1: Tyrese, please stop speaking so 'ghetto'/ebonics/whatever, you are making it harder for all of us'.

While reading Akys/Ksandras posts the last page all I can think of is this leaflet I remember seeing about women talking about how they dont want the ability to vote.

I think it might have been this one, or something similar to it :

http://f.kulfoto.com/pic/0001/0034/spU0a33474.jpg

[Uzor]

Religion is the opium of the people. They think that if they close their eyes to the fact that their kids are having sex, it doesn't happen.

[Waraji]

They think that if they close their eyes..., it doesn't happen.

That basis of largely every religious backed policy in US legislature right now.

[Aksannyi]

Okay but neither Ksandra nor I were saying that abortion shouldn't be a woman's right or that it should be taken away. What we did say is that there are much better and healthier pregnancy prevention methods out there.

I'm a feminist, in case my other posts on this forum haven't given any indication. (Of course, there's a difference between feminism/supporting equal rights for women and being a feminazi, I don't hate men or any of that crap.) I support a woman's right to choose - which is why, while I would never get an abortion myself, nor would I actively encourage someone else to have one - I believe that every woman has the autonomy of self to have an abortion if that's her choice. However, that said, abortion is not the ideal means for pregnancy prevention. The cost involved is higher when it comes to abortion, and the stress on the body is also higher. It's not a pretty thing to go through. That said, sometimes your birth control fails. Sometimes women are raped. Yes, that does often mean that an abortion is the best choice, and I support a woman's right to have one.

But if we can do something like provide access to free birth control for all women, the amount of abortions will automatically go down - almost guaranteed. I think most women would use birth control if they had access to it/could afford it. (Could be wrong, I'm not every woman.) If that's the case, then yes. The number of abortions that a woman can get should be limited. If you go out of your way to avoid every available birth control option - especially if it's free and easy to get - then yes, after your second abortion in a year, you should pay for it yourself. Prevention before treatment, isn't that the case for 99% of other medical issues? We'd rather prevent than treat, this shouldn't be any different.

And finally, we're not talking about a significant portion of women here. There aren't a lot of women for whom that will even apply. How many women have so many abortions that they'd even cross this threshold? I don't think it's that many. Seriously.

[quannum]

you should pay for it yourself.

you're just repeating your bad ideas.

[Ksandra]

ridiculous nonsense

Neither aks or I said abortions shouldn't be allowed so the voting comparison is just stupid.

Look, abortions are painful both physically and emotionally. The mommy boards I frequent have forum sections to help deal with the loss and move on. And it's chalk full of these poor women who are having a rough time dealing with it. I don't look down on women who have abortions. I feel bad that they had to make such a hard decision. Why in the fuckity fuck is it a bad idea to try and help women so they never have to make such a decision? Do you think these women wanted to abort? No, they wanted to not be pregnant in the first place. Don't come here and pretend like you know more about women. This is such bullshit. I've seen how hard it is on them. They would have been happier had they never gotten pregnant in the first place. So why not help people so they don't get pregnant unless they want to?

I look at it the same way as I look at obesity. It is healthier both physically and emotionally for someone to get access to resources to make it so they eat/exercise right so they never become obese, than it is to just keep letting people get overweight and give out lapbands. This does not mean I don't think people should get lapbands. Just that we should help them so they don't need to get one in the first place.

I mean, fuck, that is what preventative medicine is all about. Pregnancies are no different.

[archibaldcrane]

How is the woman who already has two ill advised children gonna tell anyone else how birth control should work?

[Ksandra]

How is the woman who already has two ill advised children gonna tell anyone else how birth control should work?

how are they ill advised?

[archibaldcrane]

Not you Christ Ksandra

[Ksandra]

Not you Christ Ksandra

I AM A WOMAN WITH TWO KIDS AND YOU POSTED RIGHT AFTER ME.

[Aksannyi]

Oh so you're talking about me then? The woman who was married when she had both of her children? The woman who made the extremely difficult decision to have her children live somewhere else so that they could have a better life than she could provide for them on her own? The woman who misses her kids every day but knows that she made the best decision for them? The woman who has been on the pill ever since her divorce in 2009 so she doesn't have any more kids that she's not prepared to raise?

How about you not judge someone you don't know? Or if you'd like, I could go get my kids, apply for a fat ass welfare check and cost all of y'all motherfuckers some of your hard earned paychecks - I'll happily quit my job and live off the government, if that's a better alternative? (Protip: I would never do that because I value being able to work for what I have.)

Don't fucking try to judge me or my life decisions. You have no idea what I've gone through to try to do everything so that my kids have a better life than me. So all of you, fuck off if you're going to attempt to judge me.

[archibaldcrane]

Yep, you're the one I was referring to.

[Aksannyi]

Well you should learn to do some research before you talk all sorts of shit.

[archibaldcrane]

I think you just did all the research for me.