.DAT Mining: 4/7/2014 Update - Findings and Discussion

[Indalecia]

The reason magic accuracy is bad for Ward is because skill over cap only adds to duration. The acc/magic acc for skill over cap were for Rage pacts only.

And as soon as you say it, I remembered the wording. So yeah, Hagondes Pet:macc is significantly best piece for debuff

[Sechs]

The reason magic accuracy is bad for Ward is because skill over cap only adds to duration. The acc/magic acc for skill over cap were for Rage pacts only.

Hmmmmmmmm where does this info come from?
It seems strange that somewhere into the game mechanics there is a check like:

"Is this BP a Ward or a Rage?"
"Rage ==> Convert Skill to macc"
"Ward ==> Convert Skill to duration"

It just sounds too... clunky.
This would mean that before the last patch you could gain additional macc from SMN Skill on Cait Sith for instance, since his debuffs were Rage and not Wards.
Really, it makes no sense for them to apply such a rule on a "Ward or Rage" basis.
If anything, it has to be applied on a BP basis, or maybe according to the target.
If the BP targets an enemy targets (wether it's a magical attack, physical attack or a debuff) it gets the standard SMN skill > Acc/Macc conversion.
If it's something that can be used on friendly targets then it gets the SMN skill > Duration conversion.

[Indalecia]

Hmmmmmmmm where does this info come from?

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/update...71/detail.html

Edit: FUCK...I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the fact that we've had separate BP timers since '06. If you woulda asked me when that happened before seeing those patch notes, I would've said "About a year before Abyssea"

[Dotsudoku]

They probably just didn't think to specifically mention debuff ward pacts in that post. I mean, there were like.. three of them back then

Either way, they all seem to have tremendously high base accuracy if summoning skill overflow isn't being taken into account

[Sechs]

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/update...71/detail.html

Edit: FUCK...I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the fact that we've had separate BP timers since '06. If you woulda asked me when that happened before seeing those patch notes, I would've said "About a year before Abyssea"

Wow! Sorry I had to make you go through the hassle of having to find the original patch notes lol

Either way, it's very generic; the overall situation was much different back then and I don't think that line tells a lot or rules out anything in particular.
It talks about "accuracy". Does it even apply to "macc" as well for other Rages? We wouldn't be able to tell from that line.

I guess it could make sense for SMN skill to affect how much a debuff is going to last ("potency") but I have a hunch that applies only to Wards which are player-targeted (buffs), and not to those enemy-targeted (debuffs).
I think we need a test in the math section of BG to see how things really work, or ask on the official forums and hope for an (unlikely) reply on their side.


@Dotsudoku
Some seem to indeed have high base macc (Tidal Roar?), others don't

[Sechs]

Actually, it could be even more simple and maybe there is no "check" at all. It could be BOTH THINGS at the same time. Obviously not both can apply at all the times. Like take a Ward Buff, what would more physical acc/magical acc do to a Buff? Nothing. So you'll notice only the lasting time part of the SMN Skill conversion.
Or take another example: a physical Rage BP. It has no "last time" so you wouldn't notice that.
But now take a debuff. On this particular type of BP you would be able to benefit from BOTH things: the lasting time AND the accuracy.
No way to tell without a test but it would make a lot of sense for things to be, more simply, just this way. Don't you agree?


I don't remember how things were before 2006. Did SMN skill play any part at all in SMN accuracy/damage/lasting time?
I think I remember it affected the interrupt rate when you're actually summoning, but did it do anything else before that?
And in the patch notes they only talk about skill ABOVE cap. But obviously, currently, even skill BELOW cap gets used to calculate several things (basic lasting time, basic accuracy, basic macc etc)
Maybe the math model used is split in two:
Conversion one: Skill =< level cap
Conversion two: Skill > level cap

[Indalecia]

Before 2006, SMN was your interruption rate on casting. I don't even remember if elementals were affected at that point.

All of these are going to be "average smn" gear observations. Once you start going out of your way to gear specifically for debuffs, the paradigm shifts:

Tidal Roar: Extremely accurate
Diamond Storm: pile on the acc, it misses alot
Slowga: fairly accurate, but need more acc than base
Nightmare: if it can be slept, 90%chance it will
Sleepga: I'd say 70-80%ish
Lunar roar: seems to follow elemental alignment more than most. If its a dark mob, good luck. Anything else and ~80-85% land rate
Mewling lullaby: Honestly havent played with it enough in base/advanced sets to be fair to its accuracy.
Shocksquall: Unless the mob is immune, its gonna land. VERY few exceptions
Eerie eye: lands, but there's like a second check or something for it. And that second check is ass. Just lullaby.
Lunar cry: as bad, if not worse, than diamond storm. Pump every bit into it.

Having written it out, maybe everything is just resistant to evasion down? How well does gravity stick on mobs in Aldouin? Anyway, those are the debuffs used normally and situationally. I'm not bothering with others like Pavor Nocturnus or Ultimate Nightmare.

[Viar]

Don't want to make a new thread, but is the Deathlocke worth doing over a delve gun? 1 less damage than the Death Penalty and +90 magic damage, plus the card thing.

Just use Vanir.

[geno3302]

Physical accuracy (with a few notable exceptions) is not really a major problem. I'm finding macc, however, to be an ever-loving fucking crap-shoot. It's getting to the point that I'm getting a second set of Hagondes, just to hit up every piece with Pet: Macc.

Also, need more BPII added. And not 2-3; more like a total of 15, at the very least, needs to be available.

Pipe dream is for buffable avatars too, but yeah, thats gonna fucking happen. >.>

My avatars melee ACC is horrid in delve, delve 2, DM and BCNMs on D/VD. BP accuracy is fine, but melee acc tends to be around 20-25% (50% on D BCNMs)

Admittedly I only have Avatar: ACC+80-88 (depending on what gloves I use) in my avatar idle acc set. I know I can get another 47-50 ACC but I don't think that's going to solve the issue or even come close. DD need over 930 ACC (960+ for some stuff) before food and buffs to cap ACC.

Hopefully the food in the may update adds around 150-200 ACC since melee can get Hunters+50-65, Songs +50-70, food +50-90. ACC build might be worth it for the extra DPS and increased magic BP dmg.

[Dotsudoku]

I've started rethinking my accuracy/haste build for avatars. They tend to parse lower when I place them in the fray, due to them dying and needing to be resummoned(resetting their TP)

[CoreyX]

Does anyone know how much the Regen Duration +12 on Coeus (New SCH JSE weapon) increases regen duration? 12 seconds? 12 percent? And for that matter, how many HP per tick does Wopket's club add to Regen V with SCH hat?

[Sechs]

I thought Wopket's club added potency, not duration?

[CoreyX]

Yes that's why I asked how much per tick does it add