New JSE Weapons

[Sechs]

Think it's actually better than Ochain with reprisal up, but worse with Reprisal down of course.
Nothing to do with Aegis of course.

[JSHidaka]

the only problem atm is Reprisal... Reprisal's damage dealt cap is determined by the following equation (Total HP/2) and it wear off after that, next or june update dont recall atm SE said that will change it to Total HPx 2, so probably will last the full min! -_-... but with a good Haste/Fast Cast set/Haste Spells/Songs can get recast lower than 1 min.. (like to 45 secs w/ 75% Haste)

[dasva]

It will be kinda situationally. Currently against a single mob you probably wont hit the dmg cap so that shouldn't matter a lot of the time. But super tanking you definitely will hit it fast right now and even after the update you might still before 1 min.... but if you take off ilvl weapon you will get resist on dmg .

Also note it's not always better with reprisal. According to SE reprisal is +50% block rate but with priwen it's +200% instead. So at low enough base blockrates ochain would still win at least in terms of block rate (which is important so you don't get statuses or any super high spikes) though would take even lower to make it win on the total dmg prevented too. For example iirc against 126 mobs with capped/merited skill but no gear ochain had ~70% blockrate which would go to 100% while I believe priwen was ~30% which should go to 90%. Of course if you threw in the few good pieces (AA swd and reforged af feet for example) you should be able to bump priwens base high enough to cap with reprisal.

Of course that's currently the highest level normal mobs... nms well... martel help us

[Fwahm]

Except that Ochain at 100% block rate still loses to Priwen at 90% block rate. There aren't any mobs in the game that make Priwen lose to Ochain in physical mitigation when Reprisal is up.

[dasva]

Except that Ochain at 100% block rate still loses to Priwen at 90% block rate. There aren't any mobs in the game that make Priwen lose to Ochain in physical mitigation when Reprisal is up.

Why would you start with except and then restate what I said...? Yes again the highest level normal mob priwen will still have higher amounts of total dmg prevented. However, again there are advantages to blocking even less dmg such as preventing status effects and preventing spikes in dmg. So if preventing bad additional effects might be more important than a little bit more dmg prevented... or if a few unlucky unblocked hits could kill you again less total might be more important. And again I don't know if there is data on the higher nms so it might even be lower. And then there are nms that dispel a lot etc. Is priwen often and probably even usually better? Yes but it is still situational.

[Darkmagi]

Reliable damage reduction will always win in the end, it doesn't matter if you're taking less damage overall if a single spike damage gets through and kills you.

[ikariiiii]

there are advantages to blocking even less dmg such as preventing status effects and preventing spikes in dmg

so this settles it.

ochain: better for blocking out status effects and damage spikes, priwen: better at mitigating damage and blocking status effects 90% of the time?

[Fwahm]

Why would you start with except and then restate what I said...? Yes again the highest level normal mob priwen will still have higher amounts of total dmg prevented. However, again there are advantages to blocking even less dmg such as preventing status effects and preventing spikes in dmg. So if preventing bad additional effects might be more important than a little bit more dmg prevented... or if a few unlucky unblocked hits could kill you again less total might be more important. And again I don't know if there is data on the higher nms so it might even be lower. And then there are nms that dispel a lot etc. Is priwen often and probably even usually better? Yes but it is still situational.

You said it's not always better with reprisal, but it is. Priwen definitely caps 100% with Reprisal on VD AAs and the like, so level 126ish mobs in Woh Gates are the ONLY mobs that it doesn't cap on naturally, and on those mobs you don't care about spike damage or status effects.

[dasva]

You said it's not always better with reprisal, but it is. Priwen definitely caps 100% with Reprisal on VD AAs and the like, so level 126ish mobs in Woh Gates are the ONLY mobs that it doesn't cap on naturally, and on those mobs you don't care about spike damage or status effects.

Techncially you are just saying those situations don't currently exist while I was just listing ones they would lose in slightly different arguments.... But as I've never seen parses of blockrates of VD nms so I couldn't be sure which I alluded to. So yes if your statement isn't just eyeballing AND if VD AAs are the hardest nms in the game then yes in there isn't currently a situation where priwen would lose other than something that dispels often. Do you have any data to support 100% block rate with priwen on all the VD AAs and for good measure the VD nms added since them?

[Damane]

Reliable damage reduction will always win in the end, it doesn't matter if you're taking less damage overall if a single spike damage gets through and kills you.

this is true, especially considering like 50% of the mobs/bosses have some dispel move/spell whatever.

[Martel]

Of course that's currently the highest level normal mobs... nms well... martel help us

The chance of me doing any shield tests on NMs is pretty low atm.

Not knowing the mob's level sucks. Well, I suppose we probably know enough about block mechanics now that I could probably figure out the mobs level(or at least a their combat skill) from the block rate.

High end NMs are a pain in the ass. Shield testing requires Big samples for accuracy. And most high end NMs are now in timed instances. It'd take a ridiculous number of VD AA's to gather a good sample. <,<;;

Also, the mobs can't cause block preventing statuses. Petrify, sleep, stun, etc. Screws with the sample. Oh, and no AoE/combined multi-hit melee(these don't get a block packet.)

[dasva]

Wouldn't a 100% block rate tests not require as much of a sample as a general determining block rate test? I seem to remember when doing crit rate tests using the 100% method usually a hundred so was good enough I think

[Byrthnoth]

Wouldn't a 100% block rate tests not require as much of a sample as a general determining block rate test? I seem to remember when doing crit rate tests using the 100% method usually a hundred so was good enough I think

Yes, if someone blocks 304 times in a row, there's a 95% chance that they have a 100% block rate.

[Magnus7775]

As THF, with both Treasure Hunter daggers, +2 TH hands, TH feet and TH belt, is any Treasure Hunter being wasted?

According to my math and understanding of the most recent Treasure Hunter changes, with all that gear on, a THF will be at the Treasure Hunter cap. But I also read something indicating that it puts you one above cap. Anyone have any experience/insight on this?

[Priran]

1 TH is being wasted. THF cannot put more than TH8 on a mob simply by getting on its hate list, you have to proc TH9, 10, etc by meleeing.

[Magnus7775]

1 TH is being wasted. THF cannot put more than TH8 on a mob simply by getting on its hate list, you have to proc TH9, 10, etc by meleeing.

Thank you! You answered my question perfectly.

In my experience TH level can only raise once per attack round, and is based on rounds of attacks, and not individual attacks. So the fastest way to get TH10 on a mob is with TH hands, waist, feet, and single-wielding one of the two TH daggers

[Karizo]

Thank you! You answered my question perfectly.

In my experience TH level can only raise once per attack round, and is based on rounds of attacks, and not individual attacks. So the fastest way to get TH10 on a mob is with TH hands, waist, feet, and single-wielding one of the two TH daggers

I think bg-wiki has a good explanation on optimal TH proccing. Basically equip thief knife (less damage than the il119 JSE dagger), all other relevant TH gear, cap accuracy, remove all DA/TA/QA equipments (TH only procs on first hit), and keep SA/TA/Feint on cooldown when applicable.

EDIT:Obviously use il119 dagger if accuracy is an issue, it gives a ton of accuracy =P

[NynJa]

Basically equip thief knife (less damage than the il119 JSE dagger), all other relevant TH gear, cap accuracy, remove all DA/TA/QA equipments (TH only procs on first hit), and keep SA/TA/Feint on cooldown when applicable.

DO NOT FUCKING DO THAT UNLESS YOU WANT YOUR ENTIRE SERVER TO HATE YOU (presuming youre at behemoth)

[Ihina]

I once did nothing but hit TA, engage, hit it, hit SA, hit it, disengage, wait 50 seconds and repeat. Feint where applicable. Yeah, some people weren't pleased, but to be fair, I thought I was alone; was watching some youtube.

[NynJa]

Its a shitty system, there should either be 3 behe pops and one dedicated to KB, or login campaign should just give out a KB pop for 4k pts.