New JSE Weapons

[dasva]

Probably better off with well any other ilvl 119 ranged weapon.

[Karizo]

For someone who doesn't plan on getting a relic, empy, mythic anytime soon. Is the RNG gun better than anything else available, minus to the items I said?

I made the Lionsquall and I have to say the -enmity really makes a huge difference. Obviously it's no Annihilator, but for the things I bring my gimp RNG to I can constantly DD with no worry of pulling as long as I'm not retarded (Decoy up whenever, Camou once it goes down for the next round of enmity-free volley until WS). I never have to hold back double shout or barrage and use them on recast. As for performance wise, I've parsed with well-geared Annihilator RNGs and they consistently do 1.5 times the amount I do. I do not have all the best things in my other slots, but I am basically in full 119 for my midshot/WS set (I do not have all the snapshot available). I have not parsed against good RNGs in non-relic, so it's hard to compare (everyone who is serious about RNGs make an Annihilator basically) to other available 119 options (like Tenzen bow, Skirmish +2, delve 2.0, tiger bow 119), but the few other RNGs with alternative 119 options have all fallen far behind me (by about 30% in DPS using scoreboard), whether it's their lack of skills or just other options being worse off, I cannot say. I think it's a good investment though, even if it's a stop gap until you finish your relic. I might be able to answer the question more accurately should Tenzen bow drop one day for me lol.

[Capuchin]

I made the Lionsquall...

Agreed with everything he said ^^. I have a solidly geared RNG in all other respects (relevant 119 AF/Relic pieces, shoot Achi. bullets, etc.) but not really dedicated enough to the job to get a relic, and Lionsquall is a pretty good alternative. I very rarely pull hate with smart use of Decoy/Camo and do respectable damage. Although a good 119 Relic RNG will beat me, I regularly outparse random /sh 119 Anni RNGs. While I know that's not a massive achievement, it's plenty to perform well in any current RNG-favored content.

[Tronian]

Agreed with everything he said ^^. I have a solidly geared RNG in all other respects (relevant 119 AF/Relic pieces, shoot Achi. bullets, etc.) but not really dedicated enough to the job to get a relic, and Lionsquall is a pretty good alternative. I very rarely pull hate with smart use of Decoy/Camo and do respectable damage. Although a good 119 Relic RNG will beat me, I regularly outparse random /sh 119 Anni RNGs. While I know that's not a massive achievement, it's plenty to perform well in any current RNG-favored content.

with last stand?

[Karizo]

with last stand?

Yes with Last Stand.

[dasva]

-10 enmity does less than you think it does. And if it was making that much of a difference you could easily throw some into a slot that doesn't add much like earrings and come out with better dmg stats

[Karizo]

-10 enmity does less than you think it does. And if it was making that much of a difference you could easily throw some into a slot that doesn't add much like earrings and come out with better dmg stats

We're simply discussing the merits of weapons that are non-RME for a RNG. Obviously the -10 enmity doesn't warrant using Lionsquall over Annihilator, but my original point was how effective it seems to be compared to other available 119 options with regards to the amount of enmity generated. Also, I don't know the exact math but if I pull the mob with eminent bow using Jishnu's Radiance vs. not pulling while freely shooting non-stop with Lionsquall and Last Stand, I believe -10 enmity at least makes a noticeable difference.

[dasva]

We're simply discussing the merits of weapons that are non-RME for a RNG. Obviously the -10 enmity doesn't warrant using Lionsquall over Annihilator, but my original point was how effective it seems to be compared to other available 119 options with regards to the amount of enmity generated. Also, I don't know the exact math but if I pull the mob with eminent bow using Jishnu's Radiance vs. not pulling while freely shooting non-stop with Lionsquall and Last Stand, I believe -10 enmity at least makes a noticeable difference.

Who the hell is talking about rme.... I said most other 119 weapons. You are also comparing different ws and different weapon type... chances are those Jishnus were doing more dmg the speed of the shooting will be different might as well compare different jobs. Regardless I go back to my last statement if somehow that -10 enmity is making that much of a difference (very doubtful the math says you'd only pull hate a little later) that you can find the -enmity elsewhere at a lower cost in stats. For example you could sub in a novio earring and Paqichikaji Ring for -10 enmity. You lose what some agi/str or something from the earring and a little racc from the ring or possibly str/agi... but only on ws.

But from the weapon you can potentially gain much more. For example sticking to guns for now since easier to compare delve dmg ones about break even the snapshot might win in dmg. Going to skirmish it's hard to say since the augments haven't really been updated for them... but for example there is a screenshot of the bow +19 dmg, 10 ratt, +10% ws dmg. The gun should be able to get just about as much except less base dmg. Going to bows that bow itself is pretty awesome as is Hangaku-no-Yumi.

[Capuchin]

I also have little trouble feeling like I make a solid contribution on my Lionsquall RNG, using Last Stand (3/5) and not really holding back.

One thing about enmity... remember that if you're in a RNG heavy situation with a tank, ALL of the Rangers are dumping their non-WS enmity on the tank during Decoy. That really does a lot to help the tank hold hate, especially if as a non-Relic RNG you offset your Decoy from the other RNGs (i.e. even when yours is down, at least one of the other RNG is using Decoy and continuing to feed large amounts of VE to the tank).

Yeah, you still have a CE issue regardless where eventually you'll cap out and run a risk of pulling hate. But honestly, that only happens in a seriously long fight - VD level high tier battles are about it for me, D don't even last long enough. Even in worst case scenario you can still manage even if you pull hate and die (there's really no reason this would happen more than once in a long fight), just get back up with wiped hate and pew pew while weak.

[NynJa]

Since when does Decoy Shot not affect WS's?

[Dotsudoku]

Since always

[Damane]

albeit rngsshouldnt get hit. the last enmity update made it so - enmity is also good for getting hit and shedding hate. -10 enmity isnt laughable, i talk from a mage/nuker standpoint and -20 enmitiy alone make a big difference.

[Karizo]

Who the hell is talking about rme.... I said most other 119 weapons. You are also comparing different ws and different weapon type... chances are those Jishnus were doing more dmg the speed of the shooting will be different might as well compare different jobs. Regardless I go back to my last statement if somehow that -10 enmity is making that much of a difference (very doubtful the math says you'd only pull hate a little later) that you can find the -enmity elsewhere at a lower cost in stats. For example you could sub in a novio earring and Paqichikaji Ring for -10 enmity. You lose what some agi/str or something from the earring and a little racc from the ring or possibly str/agi... but only on ws.

But from the weapon you can potentially gain much more. For example sticking to guns for now since easier to compare delve dmg ones about break even the snapshot might win in dmg. Going to skirmish it's hard to say since the augments haven't really been updated for them... but for example there is a screenshot of the bow +19 dmg, 10 ratt, +10% ws dmg. The gun should be able to get just about as much except less base dmg. Going to bows that bow itself is pretty awesome as is Hangaku-no-Yumi.

We're not talking about RME >.> I said non-RME 119 weapons that are available... did I not? Like I said in my post, I haven't parsed against any serious RNGs who don't have an Annihilator, so my personal accounts aren't 100% accurate.

Also, a few points that contribute to my personal accounts are:

1. Like I said, I was pulling using Eminent Bow and Jishnu's Radiance when the party is basically the same (same PLD, same Annihilator RNG), which are about the majority of enmity contributions) as when I use Lionsquall and Last Stand.

2. By no means am I denouncing other weapons in terms of raw damage potential. I simply wanted to state that Lionsquall, from my experience, has been much safer than when I used a bow (I've only used Eminent Bow, haven't been able to get either Skirmish +2, Delve 2.0, or Tenzen Bow). I'm not sure about Skirmish +2 augments, but Delve 2.0/Tenzen has no -enmity. With this logic, my enmity control would only worsen with the increase in damage.

3. Sorta related to 1, but with other competent RNGs in the party, decoy shot becomes more effective. However, I have not pulled using Lionsquall in AA D fights when I'm contributing more than 50% in a 3 RNG setup (with less geared/less skilled RNGs) while pulling using an Eminent Bow and contributing less than 30% in a 2 RNG setup (when I was basically carried by an Annihilator RNG). I'm not sure how else to decipher those numbers.

4. From what I understand, Decoy Shot transfers 80% of the enmity from shots that it applies to (normal shots and procs from double shot?). With an additional -10 enmity from Lionsquall, assuming no other -enmity from gear, this means your shots are generating 10% of the normal enmity while the tank takes the other 80%. This shitty math puts your enmity generated from non-WS and non-Barrage at half of what you would usually be generating under decoy shot (20% of normal shot), which I don't think should be ignored.

Sorry if some or all of my points are invalid from my bad logic, but I didn't mean to agitate anyone and was simply trying to help people decide whether to make the gun or not based on some personal experiences.

[dasva]

Actually you are talking about rme. You brought it up as some kind of counter to my argument about non rme....

Those would be great points of no other enmity gear existed... but back to the same point yet again they do exist and the trade off in using them is less than the gun. For example most decent rngs already have -20 enmity or close to it in their tp set. Partly because a lot of ilvl rng peices come with it. So most decent rngs aren't getting any enmity from normal shots while decoy is up already.

A bit of it comes down to money. If you really really need a little extra -enmity and you aren't being serious about rng you could just pick up a novia for a mil instead of spending a few mil on a less dmging weapon