XIV at E3 2014 (June 10-12)

[OWS_Tonx]

SMN has always been about large amounts of burst damage, not a game of stacking DOT with a pet. It may remain DPS but the job doesn't resemble it's prior packaging.

And that's fine, this is an MMO. Adjustments need to be made. But when people make the argument that Ninja can't be retooled to be whatever it is the devs want when SMN, SCH and BRD have already done so, it's a poor argument. Ninja could be a damn healer if the dev team so wanted.

throwing the shit out of those cureshurikens

[Elcura]

If it has to stand next to enemies to hit them, then it's another melee DPS.

Over half the jobs in XIV are DPS. DPS is the easiest role to replace. Melee DPS is the lowest demand role in the game. And the role choice for Ninja is... melee DPS, making melee DPS the only role in the game with 3 jobs (physical ranged and magic ranged are not the same thing, particularly given BRD's support mechanics).

I feel like you're answering your own questions as to why NIN being melee DPS is fine. But since you seem to think that BRD is melee DPS there probably no helping you.

I mean I would say that BRD SMN and BLM share the role of ranged DPS, but you would say that MNK DRG and BRD share the role of physical (/melee) DPS. This is not a back and forth I consider worth having, though like most conversations with you.

[lilbubbles]

SMN has always been about large amounts of burst damage, not a game of stacking DOT with a pet. It may remain DPS but the job doesn't resemble it's prior packaging.

That is a common misconception.. SMN is a burst damage class with a ramp up time. A smn who is just stocking dots with pet will do 200 dps or less.

In any fight around the 30 second mark, SMN will be the highest dps BY FAR in a group. Fights with high priorty adds that take around 30 seconds to kill such as levi, or t9 golems, a smn or a bard will always be the one who has highest threat. We do 600 dps during burst phase.

[Raldo]

But since you seem to think that BRD is melee DPS there probably no helping you.

Wut. Reading comprehension, please.

[Judai]

I realized this yesterday but Ninja is going to benefit from WAR's Storm Eye, the first dps to do so. That's great news!

Ifrit not even considered a DPS. Poor inferior egi.

[Lucavi]

I think that had more to do with the way they implemented Utsusemi than the idea of Ninja. Ninja is a pretty popular job regardless, but there was a long period of history where Ninja was downright the best/safest tank.

I mean, even if you played Paladin you'd still use Utsusemi. Utsusemi Utsusemi Utsusemi can we summon Lucavi

I HAVE ARRIVED!

Lol at people thinking your DPS DF queues would go faster if Nin was tank. Lol at people thinking tank shortages comes from anything except people not wanting to tank, period. Lol at people thinking the masses wanted to deal damage less than they wanted to tank as a Nin. Lol at people desiring Yoshi to listen to a sub-set of BG who wants another 10 years of blink tanking forcing devs to waste time and resources trying to design encounters specifically to nerf shadows while allowing the two pre-existing meat tanks to not completely overpower the tank role.

Did I get it all, Rocl?

Edit: For srs, though, I'm curious to see if Nin is going to be the first "true" stance-dancing job in the game. Monk has stances, but they're essentially buff-less self-buffs tied to single moves. True "stances" on monk would be having to switch between the 3 fist buffs during combat, which, given how much Monk has to currently do for an optimal DPS rotation, is probably better off not existing on the Monk class.

[Spider-Dan]

If you're worried about any DPS class being less desired it will most likely be DRG. I doubt solid monks that push 400+ DPS currently will ever have to worry about being phased out until there are some major job adjustments.

The amount of DPS you can push out is irrelevant if you never get a chance to join in PF because there's two melee DPS slots and NINs have jumped in both of them already.

[Detzu]

NIN for 2.4, healer and tank for expansion.

Dark Knight incoming because of Ishgard!

[Kaixin]

Edit: For srs, though, I'm curious to see if Nin is going to be the first "true" stance-dancing job in the game.

That would be fun. I'm interested to see how stealth mode, dagger skills ('physical'), and handsign skills ('magic') work together as well.

[Spider-Dan]

In before you lose all other i90+ jobs you have once you start a new job.

I also disagree with the, more tank jobs != more tanks argument.

There are a group of people who are just tanks, that is what they play, cause they like to do it.

I don't know if you are on legacy servers. If you were, you may have noticed that at the start of 2.0, Limsa was overrun with thousands of blue rats. This was not because 1.0 players are more inclined to play as healers or casters.

People like to play new jobs when they are released; this should not be an unfamiliar or controversial statement. So if a bunch of existing players start playing a newly released job, then whatever role that job is will, by definition, have a lot more people playing it.

If NIN was a tank, then that would mean the tank population would increase (until/unless people got tired of NIN). Since NIN is a melee DPS instead, that means the melee DPS population will increase (until/unless people got tired of NIN).

Unless you're talking about new subscribers, every person that job changes to NIN is job changing off of something else.

[Kaslo]

I don't know if you are on legacy servers. If you were, you may have noticed that at the start of 2.0, Limsa was overrun with thousands of blue rats. This was not because 1.0 players are more inclined to play as healers or casters.

People like to play new jobs when they are released; this should not be an unfamiliar or controversial statement. So if a bunch of existing players start playing a newly released job, then whatever role that job is will, by definition, have a lot more people playing it.

If NIN was a tank, then that would mean the tank population would increase (until/unless people got tired of NIN). Since NIN is a melee DPS instead, that means the melee DPS population will increase (until/unless people got tired of NIN).

Unless you're talking about new subscribers, every person that job changes to NIN is job changing off of something else.

But because people TRY OUT new jobs does not mean they will carry them to endgame, or even to level 35.

[Spider-Dan]

But because people TRY OUT new jobs does not mean they will carry them to endgame, or even to level 35.

This is not XI. Trying out a job for a week means you are already LV50 in full i90.

[Judai]

This is not XI. Trying out a job for a week means you are already LV50 in full i90.

You don't seem to understand. Leveling a new job, does not mean everyone will continue playing that job.

[arus2001]

RDM or DNC healing job would be popular as well.

It's sad to see what XI did to some people's thinking.

Or put another way, at what point did Hybrid turn into meaning Support.

[Kaslo]

Trying out a job for a week means you are already LV50 in full i90.

To the average player, no its not.

[Lucavi]

The amount of DPS you can push out is irrelevant if you never get a chance to join in PF because there's two melee DPS slots and NINs have jumped in both of them already.

Is PF that big of a thing to you that your rebuttals cannot utilize FC and LS-constructed parties when clearing content?

Serious question, because I hear a lot of people throwing around PF and DF like they have no friends to play with. Friends who have lots of jobs leveled and thus can switch from whatever to whatever to create a balanced party.

I dunno. Maybe I'm just the odd man out with a fully-functioning FC.

And if you aren't talking about end-game content, when why are you even talking about "pushing out DPS" as if it actually matters.

[Spider-Dan]

You don't seem to understand. Leveling a new job, does not mean everyone will continue playing that job.

I would hope not, as there are going to be a lot more melee DPS in this game shortly.

But it would most likely mean that quite a few more people will have a LV50 tank job available, and that some portion of those people will prefer to stay on that new job over whatever job they came from.

Is PF that big of a thing to you that your rebuttals cannot utilize FC and LS-constructed parties when clearing content?

Serious question, because I hear a lot of people throwing around PF and DF like they have no friends to play with. Friends who have lots of jobs leveled and thus can switch from whatever to whatever to create a balanced party.

This coming from the person who cried endlessly about XI DRG. And now you have forgotten what it is like to join a pickup party!

If you are talking about FC/LS content, then the term "shortage" doesn't even apply, and none of this "more tanks! more DPS!" talk affects you.

[Spider-Dan]

[double]

[Amiricle]

It's sad to see what XI did to some people's thinking.

Or put another way, at what point did Hybrid turn into meaning Support.

It didn't, just that in ffxi, those jobs were best suited to heal/support. Keep looking at ffxi, you will see blue mage which is also a hybrid, but did not end up in the same role.

[Lucavi]

rThis coming from the person who cried endlessly about XI DRG.

Every Drg went through it in XI. Good thing this ain't XI. Not even close.

And so you've established that the tank "shortage" doesn't apply to relevant content. Any supposed healer "shortage" doesn't apply to relevant content. Thus, there was no need for Nin to be a tank.

Glad that's all cleared up. GG, SE. I look foward to my DPS Nin.