XIV at E3 2014 (June 10-12)

[arus2001]

It didn't, just that in ffxi, those jobs were best suited to heal/support. Keep looking at ffxi, you will see blue mage which is also a hybrid, but did not end up in the same role.

Why that happened isn't as simple as just saying, "Because it's RDM!" though. XI was far harsher on progression and it technically saw the same disinterest or dislike of pressure with the healing role and WHMs. RDMs certainly weren't being invited for melee or nukes when you could've picked from a glut of specialists LFG, so the last resort for those wanting to actually EXP the job fell into playing healer. SMN faced similar. From this point, I'd also say BLU avoided a similar fate because SE outright made it impractical for the job to staff swap via physical spells being tied to main hand skill with a dash of limiting the spells one could equip. And perhaps a convenient lack of Wild Carrot as a party-target heal on launch. SE could've given RDM its own flavor to teeter it back toward a legitimate hybrid, but since Tanaka's a butthurt bastard over his HNM babies getting soloed, welp, we get what we got with a side of perpetual community snark against those who hated that outcome. See: Anyone who stirred the pot in the OF threads.

Edit: That said, I feel XIV's interpretation of BLM somewhat hamstrings the overall WAR/WHM/BLM mesh of RDM. Technically, the XI-style RDM some enjoy does exist now via THM and cross-class skill selections, but the higher end DoM gear and diminished performance can be an issue with tight DPS checks and other Fuck You Mechanics. At the risk of invoking some collective groans, when/if the job does see the light of day here, it is more likely to be a melee enfeebler than a backline healer/support. More generally speaking, we're absent the Haste and Refresh that made the XI RDM "so good" at it.

[Arelian]

You don't seem to understand. Leveling a new job, does not mean everyone will continue playing that job.

It's silly to say that SOME people won't play it, though. I know a good handful of people that don't tank because they didn't like PLD or WAR. So giving people more options to be a tank makes more sense than giving people more options to do something that's already popular.

As for having a functioning FC/LS to clear content with... I'd say that it is a minority in some places. Most people I personally know that still play can only wrangle up 5-6 people for content on any given night.

[Spider-Dan]

Every Drg went through it in XI. Good thing this ain't XI. Not even close.

And so you've established that the tank "shortage" doesn't apply to relevant content. Any supposed healer "shortage" doesn't apply to relevant content. Thus, there was no need for Nin to be a tank.

Glad that's all cleared up. GG, SE. I look foward to my DPS Nin.

"Why does 2.0 WAR need buffs when my FC/LS has plenty of perfectly good PLDs?" Seems like it's always your problems that are relevant.

When you couldn't join pickup parties on DRG, it was critically vital that DRG be buffed.
When you didn't want to cast Utsusemi, XI was broken and unplayable.
When PLD was a better tank than WAR, XIV was horribly unbalanced.
But now the solution is "why don't you learn to make friends so community demands don't matter"?

Nice to see that you've come around to the same advice everyone else has been telling you for a decade.

[Lucavi]

It's silly to say that SOME people won't play it, though. I know a good handful of people that don't tank because they didn't like PLD or WAR. So giving people more options to be a tank makes more sense than giving people more options to do something that's already popular.

So why make a brand new job in a role that "nobody" plays and wind up having "nobody" play the new job for more than a month or so? Its a waste of resources at that point.

As for having a functioning FC/LS to clear content with... I'd say that it is a minority in some places. Most people I personally know that still play can only wrangle up 5-6 people for content on any given night.

Then it sounds like the problem lies more in designing content and incentives to keep FCs full than making Ninja a DPS.

I'm not saying I disagree entirely with you. Attrition has probably hit just about every FC hard between the Spring-Summer and other games coming out, but Ninja as a tank wouldn't fix that. People would play it and people who love tanking would stick with it and people who love Ninjas in general might stay with it and might dump it when it comes time to actually tank something relevant. Everyone else would roll the fuck out after a few weeks or so, just like with Arcanist/Scholar/Summoner.

I really didn't care one way or another if Ninja was going to be a tank, dps or a healer who summoned giant toads to perform healing licks on the party. What I didn't want was a re-hash of XI to appease a minority of players who became addicted to the concept of blinking away damage (not just through nin, but through everything/nin) or a stifling of conceptual ideas in order to play it "safe" and retread on the previous MMO. Thankfully we didn't get either of them.

So many other jobs already play so differently from their XI counterparts. Having nin turn out to be a wheel-ignoring, shuriken-ignoring, shadow-spamming clone would have been a waste. Save that for the inevitable FFXI HD remake.

[Spider-Dan]

In other words, Lucavi is so terrified of the prospect of Utsusemi that he needs to invoke the spectre of universal /NIN in a game where job abilities cannot be cross-classed.

But yes, SE did avoid stifling creativity by reusing the tired trope of Ninja-as-tank. Instead, they are going to mix it up and show originality by having Ninja specialize in being a kick-ass killing machine. Unlike everything else ever.

[BerenTebogo]

Just gonna go back in time about 6-7 years in capped haste gear + kikoku and wonder what you people mean by "NOW it's a DPS"

Don't mind me.

[Kaixin]

oh my god. how many years deep does this spider dan, elcura, lucavi relationship go? this is awesome. I feel like I'm reading a novel.

[lilbubbles]

You don't seem to understand. Leveling a new job, does not mean everyone will continue playing that job.

Obviously 100% of the people that level will not continue to play the job.

Do you think 0% of the people that level will not continue to play the job?

> 0% = more tanks

QED

(ps, im' just having fun :3)

[Obsidian]

"Novel" is a bit generous. Grammatically-passable-but-largely-incoherent fan-fiction is what I would call it.

[Spider-Dan]

Just gonna go back in time about 6-7 years in capped haste gear + kikoku and wonder what you people mean by "NOW it's a DPS"

Don't mind me.

WAR is DD bruh

[Lucavi]

Just gonna go back in time about 6-7 years in capped haste gear + kikoku and wonder what you people mean by "NOW it's a DPS"

Don't mind me.

Six or 7 is what... 2008-ish? What were we killing in 2008? I figured people considered XI's heyday 2005-2007?

I figure any "NOW"s would be post-RotZ/CoP, when essentially everyone got buffed to do stupid DPS.

Regardless of whatever butthurt "afraid of utsu" tripe is spewed up, the results are in: no tank for j00. Enjoy the queue.

[Kaixin]

"Novel" is a bit generous. Grammatically-passable-but-largely-incoherent fan-fiction is what I would call it.

OMG you and sath are involved too? is there a codex I can read for all this backstory??

[Kairos]

I don't know about a significant amount of more tanks, There would be more, but the majority of people would level rogue for whatever cross class abilities they might be able to use, then drop it like a bad habit the moment I obtain the highest level cross class ability. Those who would continue are only those who are both really interested in ninja AND already enjoy tanking at least a little bit. Tanking can be a bitch. You can often times do a perfect job at tanking and still get plenty of attitude from people, same goes for healers to a lesser degree though.

Anyways..

On the other hand i'm really interested in passive traits that give jobs a different types of mobility and chances to use terrain, distance, or time in a strategic way. I like the increased movement speed and reduced fall damage which both help in getting around quickly. I've always thought that dragoon should have a passive trait or short recast ability that would allow you to jump 2-3 times higher than a non-dragoon player. It could be trivial, but it could also allow for some interesting ways to create battlefields in the future to give different jobs more unique mechanics. I'm still waiting for the ability for whm to cure-bomb dps on undead.... >.>

[Lucavi]

Drgs should have had the passive fall damage trait anyway. Its not like they would have had a huge use for it in any form of realistic combat, but anything that jumps that high without taking damage normally shouldn't take much of any from any other fall.

Perhaps we'll see more of those types of traits spread around to the existing classes sooner than later.

[BerenTebogo]

OMG you and sath are involved too? is there a codex I can read for all this backstory??

http://mantiseye.com/img/caps/28/shot20.jpg

Heheh, you said it, Killer! And you can read more about it in The Bible!

[Spider-Dan]

Six or 7 is what... 2008-ish? What were we killing in 2008?

You had already quit (playing the game, not posting about it) by then, so I'll clue you in: in 2008, NIN was already obsoleted as a DD via the 2h buff.

I figured people considered XI's heyday 2005-2007?

So the disgruntled DRG's view of XI's "heyday" is almost exactly the timeframe after pentaspam nerf but before 2h buff. A coincidence, I assure you.

Regardless of whatever butthurt "afraid of utsu" tripe is spewed up, the results are in: no tank for j00.

...unless Rogue gets a cross-classable ability that gives you guaranteed dodges, in which case you can immediately quit this game, then continue posting about it for the next three years.

[Lucavi]

Goddamn, you are obsessed. Let it go, bro, it was years ago. All that anger can't be good for your blood pressure.

You don't have to reply to every single thing someone says, especially if they stop replying to you. Christ, take a hint.

[Tyrath]

...unless Rogue gets a cross-classable ability that gives you guaranteed dodges, in which case you can immediately quit this game, then continue posting about it for the next three years.

Good luck waiting for that.

[Spider-Dan]

No matter what some people might say about not replying, passive-aggressive replies are still pretty easy to spot.

I encourage you to take your own advice about Utsusemi. Yes, we know, you hated it and anything like it is automatically horrible and unoriginal. For many other people, NIN had one of the most unique and original mechanics in an MMO, one that defined XI and was pretty enjoyable. (Unless you were an unpopular 2h DD that had to switch to a subjob that provided no offensive benefit.)

The idea of a Ninja tank in XIV that used, if not similar, then at least similarly unprecedented mechanics was something I looked forward to, particularly in this game (where both gear and ability customization are on narrow rails). But now that NIN is just another DPS, you can breathe a sigh of relief and think:

"NEVER AGAIN"

[Deadgye]

Goddamn, you are obsessed. Let it go, bro, it was years ago. All that anger can't be good for your blood pressure.

You don't have to reply to every single thing someone says, especially if they stop replying to you. Christ, take a hint.

Hahahaha, the irony.

Anyway, if ninja was a tank, I'd be playing a tank. I'm not adverse to playing a tank class, but I don't want to be a paladin (especially a gimpy ass one that can't even heal itself) and I have no interest in warrior. I'm fairly positive this position or opinion isn't rare.

I wonder how ninja will fare in pvp. I wanted to play with some friends but as he was already a blm I can't join him as a bard.