XIV at E3 2014 (June 10-12)

[Sephiroth]

My problem with the content is that it's a grind, and grindy content isn't fun. For weapon upgrades in 2.2 you basically have three options.

Grind grind grind your animus/Novus.
Grind Leviathan for a mirror (1% drop rate against 7 rollers yeah right, worse than option 1)
Pull your hair out trying to find a static capable of beating T7-8 consistently.

None of this is fun. I enjoyed the original relic quest, having to clear five bosses to get your weapon, which at the time weren't piss easy. That's the kind of content I want more of, not this grindy shit. The only bit they got right were the animus books, and even then the FATEs in them desperately need improvement in the respawn times. Also why should you spend more time repeating content in order to obtain a book than you spend doing said book? Why not make the books have more content and less cost?

[Taint]

The myth grind is the retarded part. Brofox all day everyday was huge flaw in their planning. They should have quickly boosted the other zones so there was a similar myth per minute reward. The new dungeons should have also dropped at least 100 myth.

[Amiricle]

And when you cap on soldiery, any excess earned should auto convert to myth.

[kisada]

yeah. it's not so much that it's the number of the hoops or the length of the overall grind. it's that they designed this process to revolve around some of the shittiest parts of the game, namely fating and myth grind. myth grind is mildly tolerable if you get a good group, but fating is seriously the worst. i hope that the NM hunts will be a breath of fresh air, but it will do nothing to make the atma/alex fate farm any less vomit-inducing.

[Cantih]

And when you cap on soldiery, any excess earned should auto convert to myth.

That, is a lovely idea.
My urge to do dungeons drops after sold capping.

(And I hate speedruns, so I'm not even a bray 2boss grinder.)

[Spider-Dan]

IMO, the random nature of Atmas combines the worst of both worlds: the tedium of mindless easy-mode grinding with the frustration of low drop rates. It would be much better if you knew that, for example, you would get an Atma after 12 FATEs in a given zone.

[Kaiyoko]

My problem with the content is that it's a grind, and grindy content isn't fun. For weapon upgrades in 2.2 you basically have three options.

Grind grind grind your animus/Novus.
Grind Leviathan for a mirror (1% drop rate against 7 rollers yeah right, worse than option 1)
Pull your hair out trying to find a static capable of beating T7-8 consistently.

None of this is fun. I enjoyed the original relic quest, having to clear five bosses to get your weapon, which at the time weren't piss easy. That's the kind of content I want more of, not this grindy shit. The only bit they got right were the animus books, and even then the FATEs in them desperately need improvement in the respawn times. Also why should you spend more time repeating content in order to obtain a book than you spend doing said book? Why not make the books have more content and less cost?

I feel like there should completely removed myth to buy the books. Then had between 20-30 books instead, or the same number of books but add a trials tab that had a mixture of 3-5 Normal, HM, and EX trial fights in them (there is 17 trial fights in the game). Each time you finish a book you get a new one.

Better then spamming only Brayflox....

[Izzy]

It took at least 3-4 months in WoW to complete legendary weapons and no one complained once. I don't get why people are complaining about a "grind" when you can literally just do one daily for 75 days and complete your relic with no RNG or grind involved.

They're not just going to hand an upgraded relic to you jesus christ.

*EDIT* I actually think it might have taken longer in WoW. They gated the legendaries behind how many times you have cleared a raid, which most of the time was at least 20 times.

[Serenseven]

It took at least 3-4 months in WoW to complete legendary weapons and no one complained once. I don't get why people are complaining about a "grind" when you can literally just do one daily for 75 days and complete your relic with no RNG or grind involved.

While I understand and agree with your point, it's not quite that easy. Boatloads of T4 materia are not exactly falling from the sky; the hypothetical casual player doing a single expert roulette and map a day would still need to farm up a lot of gil or do a lot of spiritbonding. So there's still some grind (gil farming) or RNG (luck with the spiritbonds) to it.

[Kaiyoko]

I would be fine with more work, the problem to me with the upgrades are the content involved with upgrading them.

Atma:
Grind Fates

Animus:
Grind Brayflox HM ( Nothing else is relevant time wise )
Book of Various tasks ( This is fine )

Novous:
Grind Brayflox HM
Grind FATEs
Wait 75 days ( this isn't a big deal )

I have no issues with the Novous step because there are ways to get it at a steady pace and more methods coming in the future. My problem is with the Atma and Animus steps.

Also WoW legendary weapons are BiS, how can you compare the two lol....

[The Stig]

It took at least 3-4 months in WoW to complete legendary weapons and no one complained once. I don't get why people are complaining about a "grind" when you can literally just do one daily for 75 days and complete your relic with no RNG or grind involved.

They're not just going to hand an upgraded relic to you jesus christ.

*EDIT* I actually think it might have taken longer in WoW. They gated the legendaries behind how many times you have cleared a raid, which most of the time was at least 20 times.

I also understand your point, but in WoW it's more exclusive in that how only 1 of the 25 guys in your raid (LK era) is allowed one for the period of the time, while in again in Firelands/Dragon Soul only 1 of your 10 or 1 of your 25 (it's been a while, it may have been 25 only still) can obtain it.

I forget the back slot requirements in Mists though.

But generally because in XIV it's so accessible to the masses, hence the complaining.

I don't recall anyone complaining about Dynamis relics either (you'll get the young hopeful person who might complain now and again but otherwise people knew what they were getting into lol). Mythic was a somewhat valid complaint for a while due to Alexandrites.

[Izzy]

But generally because in XIV it's so accessible to the masses, hence the complaining.

I think that's the big point to be made. They're making this "really good class defining" weapon available to everyone, even the non-hardcore players. Hence, the "WHY CAN'T I GET MY SHINY YET" that casuals usually spit out compared to the more seasoned raiders that are just used to this shit taking a bit of time to complete.

[Ratatapa]

the reason most people complain is that 'it's long to do for a weapon that is not BIS yet and might not be for a long while'


Aka Why should i do novus now when i can get I110 Soldiery Weapon much faster

[BerenTebogo]

the reason most people complain is that 'it's long to do for a weapon that is not BIS yet and might not be for a long while'


Aka Why should i do novus now when i can get I110 Soldiery Weapon much faster

This is, at least here on BG, probably the most relevant argument. I'm getting 2nd coil weapon in like 2 weeks, well before I could have hoped to have novus. I'll do the 75 day (more or less) grind to have it for the next content when eventually maybe (probably not) it might be BiS.

[Obsidian]

So don't do it? It's very clearly intended for casual folks first-and-foremost. If you have the ability to clear Turn 8/9 and don't want to subject yourself to a map a day, then don't. But Novus/Zodiac weapons are there for those who can't/don't clear Coil regularly and would still like to improve themselves. Or for vanity.

[Kaiyoko]

I'm not sure if the later Wow legendarys had this, but didn't the Shadowmourne from ICC have an intermediate weapon that was significantly easier to make? I remember it needed the blood from x2 of the bosses in the plague wing and 25 items you could either have drop from the raid or by with points. You also could buy them off the AH. I don't think those tasks were any near the time commitment and tediousness of the Novous quest line for the intermediate weapon.

[BerenTebogo]

So don't do it? It's very clearly intended for casual folks first-and-foremost. If you have the ability to clear Turn 8/9 and don't want to subject yourself to a map a day, then don't. But Novus/Zodiac weapons are there for those who can't/don't clear Coil regularly and would still like to improve themselves. Or for vanity.

Yoshi has said (afaik) that eventually it will be BiS.

So even the hardcores have to jump on the train eventually.

[arus2001]

While the end result is more or less a sum of its parts, my beef with the current relic phases and even a bit with general progression is that it locks you to one job. Universally slash the times and not only do things become more casual friendly, but those with the time and willingness can have a bit more variety in experiencing content via multiple jobs. And while I would also agree how they're presently handling FATEs is terrible, I don't think they should be swept under the rug, either. Fuck dungeon spamming to eternity, however. You want us doing that? Get some Lufia-style Ancient Cave or FFTish Deep Dungeon randomization going or something.

[Obsidian]

I was under the impression that they would continue to be upgraded but never better than whatever the current Coil weapons are, but I haven't paid a lot of attention lately so I may have missed something.

[Kaiyoko]

Will Relics ever visually change? - Yes, the step after Novus will have more significant visual changes to Relic weapons. Eventually, there will be a 'final' version of relic weapons; that truly represents the original/ancient 'Zodiac Braves' weapon.

This is what was said recently, nothing about BiS