XIV at E3 2014 (June 10-12)

[BerenTebogo]

Ah, my mistake then.

[Lucavi]

Ah, my mistake then.

Even if you misspoke, its still something to consider. I seem to recall Yoshi saying that Coil (8-man Raids, really, even if Coil is replaced by something else) weapons will always be stronger than non-coil because of the difficulty involved in clearing the content, obviously when its first released. As a raider myself, I have no interest in making an upgraded relic for my main tank job, but will most likely make one for my secondary job.

Down the road, though, when there are multiple jobs that use the same weapon, I think you're going to see Coil drops valued even further, considering they have no specific job requirement. If you can take your Whatever Allagan Fists and use it on Monk, Puppetmaster and whatever else punches things vs. having to upgrade 2 or 3 specific relics, its only going to increase the value of that single strong weapon.

Granted, by that time, they could easily flip the script and have job-specific weapons as the absolute strongest, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

I know this, though: getting relic weapons back when they mattered (IE. when they were fairly new) was an absolute grind. The money aspect (both for hourglasses for private runs and to purchase currency) was tough, and the attestations were tough for a long time, especially back when people weren't reliably clearing the Dynamis Lord each week. I don't remember the specifics of the quests involved in upgrading the relics once the cap was raised, but back in 04-06, getting relics wasn't easier than getting Novus is today. I agree with the assessment provided earlier that because the Relics in this game are far more accessible for the common man, the complaints rise. I'm also not going to dispute that the type of grind in this game related to them is crap: there's a reason I'm shooting for High Allagan axe and not the Bravura, and it not simply because of the fruity pink aura on the weapon.

[Alkar]

Down the road, though, when there are multiple jobs that use the same weapon, I think you're going to see Coil drops valued even further, considering they have no specific job requirement. If you can take your Whatever Allagan Fists and use it on Monk, Puppetmaster and whatever else punches things vs. having to upgrade 2 or 3 specific relics, its only going to increase the value of that single strong weapon.

Unless there's a specific quote I missed this is never gonna happen. Each job has its own unique weapon and even the jobs that use the same type (SCH and SMN) don't actually share the same one.

[Lucavi]

You haven't missed a quote as far as I know.

[Cutriss]

Unless there's a specific quote I missed this is never gonna happen. Each job has its own unique weapon and even the jobs that use the same type (SCH and SMN) don't actually share the same one.

That's only because SCH and SMN aren't the same role. You're not going to give a healer a DPS weapon and vice versa.

I think your statement is generally true, but right now we just don't have a good example to prove it because no class has two jobs that serve the same role.

[lilbubbles]

It took at least 3-4 months in WoW to complete legendary weapons and no one complained once. I don't get why people are complaining about a "grind" when you can literally just do one daily for 75 days and complete your relic with no RNG or grind involved.

They're not just going to hand an upgraded relic to you jesus christ.

*EDIT* I actually think it might have taken longer in WoW. They gated the legendaries behind how many times you have cleared a raid, which most of the time was at least 20 times.

And how long were the weapons useful after you grinded them?

Can you not see the problem with Novus? lol.

If they had released them earlier, it wouldn't be a problem.. I'd actually get to use it on content.

[Arelian]

There was also content other than legendaries to do in WoW.

Spoiler: show

Shots fired?

[Izzy]

And how long were the weapons useful after you grinded them?

Can you not see the problem with Novus? lol.

If they had released them earlier, it wouldn't be a problem.. I'd actually get to use it on content.

The legendary also required you to do endgame shit. Hard endgame shit.

This shit is for casuals. Why should it be used as BiS for a long time?

[lilbubbles]

Using the word casuals and novus in the same breath is pretty hilarious.

I AM JUST GONNA CASUALLY GET A NOVUS GUYZ

It COULD have been BiS for people working on t9, just like zenith was while working on t5, instead most will have HA weapon before.

I'm spending my alex on an off class... so there is that.

[Sho]

That's a shitty comparison and you know it. Beastman tribe quests are more or less self contained. Weapons are ubiquitously used in battle content and are the most important part of anyone's gearset.

The ironic thing about this is the fact that even if the beastman tribe quests are self contained, the rewards were still 45-60 days (minimum) out of your reach. Disregarding obtaining Atma, Atma to Animus and Animus to Novus are both approx. 60~75 days minimum before you obtain the reward. This is considering if you did one book a week and 1 Alexandrite infusion a day. Of course, there is a window on obtaining BiS gear which is about 2 months in from a major [Coil/raid] update (before that BiS weapon gets trumped by the next).

It's definitely a weapon designed for "casuals." Of course there are niggas who will grind hard as fuck with these (and subsequent updates) progressions, but they will forever remain in the relative minority.

If you want a better weapon RIGHT NOW and/or instant gratification, do Coil Turn 9 and get High Allagan.

If you want a weapon that will grow with your character, change and eventually trump High Allagan over the course of 4-6 months, do Novus.

I put all of this into perspective, and I don't even give a fuck anymore about grinding this portion of the Relic quest. I'm perfectly fine getting 1 alexandrite a day; my time is better spent doing other things in game and logging off at a decent hour of the night.

[lilbubbles]

The reward for beastmen quests, the mount... is something you can use for the rest of the game, if you like the mount

As you said, gear has a short shelf life. Again, not mad about the grind.. mad at how late it was released D:

[Gulkeeva]

Welp, its been about a day, and theirs already a makeshift Scylla NSFW fanart, japan does not disappoint!

[Alkar]

That's only because SCH and SMN aren't the same role. You're not going to give a healer a DPS weapon and vice versa.

I think your statement is generally true, but right now we just don't have a good example to prove it because no class has two jobs that serve the same role.

We'll see with Ninja. I doubt their weapons after 30 will be daggers and if they're not they're likely job exclusive. However this means that Rogue will not have weapons past 30 to use so they either implement daggers past that point just for them or they're simply hiding a second job (likely Thief) and it'll be revealed later on. Honestly SCH still applies because they could've set up the job to use the same stats of their DPS counterpart but they decided to add a second type of book instead that's exclusive to them.

[The Stig]

And how long were the weapons useful after you grinded them?

Can you not see the problem with Novus? lol.

If they had released them earlier, it wouldn't be a problem.. I'd actually get to use it on content.

Hm, in your particular question, WoW's 3rd Expansion, Catalycsm, brought around 2 relics in its 3 patch cycle

4.1 (expansion)
4.2 (new raid, introducing one of the 2 relics)
4.3 (new raid, introducing the second relic)

In 4.2's case, it was significant/really useful for the groups that farmed it, that mage staff represents a significant increase in caster DPS. This allowed those groups who farmed multiple ones to clear 4.3 raid content during those "server races" and was still Best in Slot for a long time until you get the hard mode final boss weapon (I think... I don't have numbers at hand).

4.3's daggers were laughable at best though, then the next expansion came out with a level cap increase.

I'm not sure if the later Wow legendarys had this, but didn't the Shadowmourne from ICC have an intermediate weapon that was significantly easier to make? I remember it needed the blood from x2 of the bosses in the plague wing and 25 items you could either have drop from the raid or by with points. You also could buy them off the AH. I don't think those tasks were any near the time commitment and tediousness of the Novous quest line for the intermediate weapon.

I wouldn't classify the Shadowreaper (intermediate weapon) as easier to make. During that time, to make it you had to do 25 man raids and it was a drop only (followed by lots of drama as multiple people would be on the quest in pick up groups and only 1 person could get it). The ilvl of Shadowreaper is 264, matching the same ilvl as a weapon dropped from the first boss in the raid

[Seha]

We'll see with Ninja. I doubt their weapons after 30 will be daggers and if they're not they're likely job exclusive. However this means that Rogue will not have weapons past 30 to use so they either implement daggers past that point just for them or they're simply hiding a second job (likely Thief) and it'll be revealed later on. Honestly SCH still applies because they could've set up the job to use the same stats of their DPS counterpart but they decided to add a second type of book instead that's exclusive to them.

Short katanas are often daggers in many FF games, so it's very likely ninja will use wakizashi and kunai models but still be daggers. While the tachi(long katana)can be left for samurai in the future.

[Sho]

We'll see with Ninja. I doubt their weapons after 30 will be daggers and if they're not they're likely job exclusive. However this means that Rogue will not have weapons past 30 to use so they either implement daggers past that point just for them or they're simply hiding a second job (likely Thief) and it'll be revealed later on. Honestly SCH still applies because they could've set up the job to use the same stats of their DPS counterpart but they decided to add a second type of book instead that's exclusive to them.

You're forgetting about the daggers that already exist. There are about 6 or 7 that exist just after level 30 for PLD/GLD. Those will be converted into NIN/ROG weapons. From there, they will add more daggers, but it seems what will happen is any "dagger" that they add will be a Rogue as well as a Ninja weapon. Then there will be job specific Ninja "katanas."

I'm guessing for the sake of simplicity they will regard every weapon as Dagger-class as well. It would help them out before Samurai makes it debut with it's own class of weapon.

[Deadgye]

I foresee gladiator keeping their silly dagger weapons, and rogues/ninjas getting unique "2-in-1 dual wield" weapons instead. This game isn't designed well enough to utilize true dual wielding after all.

[Alkar]

You're forgetting about the daggers that already exist. There are about 6 or 7 that exist just after level 30 for PLD/GLD. Those will be converted into NIN/ROG weapons. From there, they will add more daggers, but it seems what will happen is any "dagger" that they add will be a Rogue as well as a Ninja weapon. Then there will be job specific Ninja "katanas."

I'm guessing for the sake of simplicity they will regard every weapon as Dagger-class as well. It would help them out before Samurai makes it debut with it's own class of weapon.

I'm not forgetting them but those aren't dual wielded. Yeah they could change them in 2.4 but why didn't they simply remove those from ARR considering Rogue was obviously planned already? All I'm saying is that all endgame weapons will likely be NIN exclusives because of how they'll look. Katanas will be classified as daggers for obvious reasons but I don't see Rogue using them. Ninja could also require different stats given their abilities, something they don't share with Rogue.

[SamanosukeShiva]

Using the word casuals and novus in the same breath is pretty hilarious.

I AM JUST GONNA CASUALLY GET A NOVUS GUYZ

It COULD have been BiS for people working on t9, just like zenith was while working on t5, instead most will have HA weapon before.

I'm spending my alex on an off class... so there is that.

Yes it is casual, if completing Novus requires clearing T9 then then you can call it hardcore. Cause that's what WoW players required to get a legendary weapon, clearing the hardest content in the game.

[Pooke]

They can't even get Coil right with the stupid lockouts.

Complains about Coil lockout, hasn't cleared T7.