NA/EU LCS Pro League discussion

[Gryffes]

So that happened. lol.

Felt like TSM had the stronger comp in champ select, but from the position CLG got to the game was unthrowable for them lol. Although apparently it was.

[D44kpunk]

TSM winning is like the entire world getting aids.

fanboy nation probably won't stop talking about it for a while

[BadKarma]

If what people on the Internet say frustrates you at this point in your life you really, really need to get out more

[chazzyphizzle]

when dignitas and T8 play against each other, nobody wins

[Viq]

Just got up and watched TSM vs CLG. Really poor play on both sides at different points. TSM failed to take tower trades that were available for them early while CLG was focusing dragons. CLG didn't give a shit about side lanes, letting TSM build slow pushes all game, especially in top. A lot of awkward half rotations in one direction, and then deciding too late to go a different way (looking at you, CLG after the 2nd dragon.) Then CLG just decided that patience isn't important at all. Up 4 dragons, Baron, and an inhib while your comp has strong disengage, the only way CLG could lose that game was to force engagements that they didn't have to... and they did it twice in a row. It seems like they had no idea what the situation was. The game was a little exciting, but only because of terrible mistakes being made instead of mutual high level play on both sides.

[D44kpunk]

If what people on the Internet say frustrates you at this point in your life you really, really need to get out more

i don't really know how to respond to that and you're clearly grasping cuz TSM is your team, they're everyone elses team too though

[Day]

People like winning teams, weird. here's tom with the weather.

[Day]

I thought the match was pretty good, can't believe CLG let that 4 drag baron lead go down the drain.

[Gryffes]

Niq out at gambit because of health problems apparently.

[Aevis]

Rumor says they're looking at Kori, which would be a win/win for both. But in MUCH more important news: The one, the only, the almighty SCARF erm OCELOTE retires (again). Finally? Who knows. Good riddance, eSport's a better place without him anyway and get your popcorn ready, Thorin posted:

Long Reflections interview coming today which directly addresses many of the controversies associated with his name, as well as his career path.

[Aevis]

Piglet benched for week 5, Keith in!

[Gryffes]

Wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Crazy.

[D44kpunk]

i don't really know why that surprises anyone lol, he couldn't even hit masters in korea in season 4.

and you can't build a team around 1 player with a language barrier. (every NA korean import has failed pretty hard so far and the EU/chinese ones aren't doing amazing either)

edit: also he rages/tilts extremely easy we knew this from SKT days, faker was just able to carry him back then and there wasn't much competition

also day i don't think you're even level 30 so i'm not even going to really bother, but anyone that knows TSMs history even somewhat probably isn't a huge fan of the team. it's generally just 12 year old boys and newcomers that are awe strucken by TSM chants and unable to form their own opinions

[Viq]

(every NA korean import has failed pretty hard so far and the EU/chinese ones aren't doing amazing either)

This is not a true statement. Lustboy has not failed in NA. Insec and Zero made it to Worlds finals with a Chinese team. Pawn and Deft are playing well on the best team in China right now. Imp, Acorn and Flame are all doing well on LGD, which is also near the top of the LPL standings. Save and Kakao had trouble adapting, but have been playing very well for iG, pushing them into a tie for 4th in LPL. I don't pay attention to EU, but I'm guessing Huni and Reignover must be doing something right if Fnatic is the #2 team in EU.

Sure, there are guys like Ryu, Dade and Seraph who have not had success outside of Korea (or in Korea in Seraph's case). However, to say every Korean playing in NA has failed, and the Korean players in China as a whole aren't doing well is simply false.

[D44kpunk]

sure lustboy is doing ok here, i don't think there is anyone calling him the top support in NA though. i honestly wouldn't even put him in top 3.

i don't watch LPL i don't have that much time to devote to watching league so i've just went off hearsay but i heard they were all not doing very well. maybe there has been a recent change but i was relatively sure the top team over there though was still the full chinese one?

i think everyone agrees that fnatic is extremely overrated right now and even with that in mind EU as a region is probably the weakest by a stretch.

you're also not mentioning piglet, impact, rush

[chazzyphizzle]

EU being worse than NA is highly debatable. what is not debatable is that both regions are really bad

[Aevis]

EDG is by far (huehue) the top team in China right now and Pawn is their midlaner. Why is fnatic extremely overrated? They're at a 6/2 record (same as CLG). I remember the circle jerk about the chinese one-dimensional overagression last year before worlds. Feels the same with fnatic now, except that Yellowstar acknowledged that they need to work on different strats but require more time, as they only have been together since mid January.

While Piglet is by no means the stellar ADC Liquid was hoping for, he surely isn't their only problem. Like for some reason IWD is never mentioned, but he's extremely hit or miss and by miss I mean nonexistant in the game. Piglet's just average.

I also thought Impact is one of the better players on TIP. He steadily improved since he arrived in week 2 and he plays a great Rumble. Rush has been lackluster but his Vi vs Coast was awesome. Not sure how to rate that overall though since it was vs Coast but don't forget, this is his first time playing professionally.

What puzzles me is how quick teams are to bench players. I find it simply naive to think you could import a player (or multiple, even non-english speakers) and your team will now stomp everyone after 2-3 weeks of practise. That's only the best case scenario. I'd give it at least a split, if you're not in danger of dropping out. LoL really needs more stability/longevity to increase the overall quality of each League.

[D44kpunk]

totally agree with your last comment, which is why i think all the korean imports are silly.

but apparently i'm wrong according to everyone in this thread i think all regions look weaker in general from last split. games are a lot more messy and idk if you can blame all that on the s5 changes

[Viq]

You've got to take into account that NA, EU and LPL all increased the size of their leagues. There are not 10 LCS level teams in either western region, much like there aren't 12 LPL level teams in China. That drags down the overall level of play. In Korea, the two best teams both disbanded and all ten of their players left Korea. The OGN format change coupled with the change to only allow one team per organization came fairly late, and there has been an adjustment phase. Halfway through the OGN season there are still teams that haven't nailed down their top lineup yet.

That said, China and Korea had their seasons begin before the NA and EU LCS seasons. This allows us to see that individual teams and players are adjusting and improving. GBM and the rest of JinAir are a great Korean example, and I would say iG is a solid example from the LPL of a team that took a bit of time to get everyone on the same page. There's no reason to believe that the better teams in NA and EU won't see a similar type of improvement, and along with it will come higher quality games. Unless CST or Giants are playing... no one wants to see those teams.

[Aevis]

They're undoublty weaker but the comparison is distorted by the structural changes of s5. NA/EU now have 10 instead of 8 teams, means two more challenger teams which wouldn't even be in the LCS. Those teams need time to adapt to their new environment and to settle in.

The drop in Korea was even steeper, but only short term. Previously, being a bottom tier team meant to play 3 matches and then continue in NLB. There you'd first fight other NLB teams and then the other bottom tier ones. This format highly privileged already good teams and increased the gap. For example IM#1. Their entire summer 14 season was a match vs SKT T1 K / SSB / IM#2 / Ivengers (NLB) / CJ Blaze (NLB). That's it and the OGN ones were Bo2. Now they are guaranteed 12 Bo3 matches, play each team twice in a Bo3. Long term that leads to a better League quality overall. It also looks worse now than it is, because we'd already be in playoffs with the old tournament format, with only the good teams remaining.

edit: kinda what Viq said, I should post quicker.