NA/EU LCS Pro League discussion

[BadKarma]

i don't really know how to respond to that and you're clearly grasping cuz TSM is your team, they're everyone elses team too though

I'm a C9 and Fnatic fan

Good try tho

[Day]

also day i don't think you're even level 30 so i'm not even going to really bother, but anyone that knows TSMs history even somewhat probably isn't a huge fan of the team. it's generally just 12 year old boys and newcomers that are awe strucken by TSM chants and unable to form their own opinions

Whatever fool I'm already Diamond. You just sound mad... about what I'm not really sure. I dont see any TSM fanboys here like you are even talking about. I like watching Berg and Dyrus but I dont really care about any of the teams enough to get this worked up over internet words. I also enjoy watching Sneaky, Dlift, Trick2g and QTpie. Guess I'm a C9, CLG, No LCS Team fanboy.

[Aevis]

Rumour says Coast benched Jesiz for Mancloud. I don't think that's any improvement but I guess they need a scapegoat for their 1-7 record. Nothing new from Coast.

[Gryffes]

Wickd benched for Kev1n.

Teams are going crazy right now.

Although this solves none of elements problems.

[Aevis]

Can't have those (not really) aggressive players man, no synergy with the team! Elements' master plan is to force the enemy team into surrender by delaying games for 80+ minutes.

[Gryffes]

It's like the manager read too much twitch chat and decided wickd was the problem.

[D44kpunk]

wickd wasn't elements' problem, though he is far past his prime, i still think it's the enviroment.

when everyone is on thin ice and you expect to be the best by just throwing talent at things i don't know how a team can perform under those conditions. i think prior to scarra joining CLG this was how CLG was as well.

[shepardG]

I will say i'm a TSM fanboy. I despise the way regi is as a person, however, he is a fantastic marketing guy, with the motivation to actually do something with it. I've liked TSM sine TRM was running top and dyrus was lighting waffles on fire in the microwave

[D44kpunk]

TSM in those days was great, TSM now a days

downhill when regi started kicking players on their show

[Aevis]

ROFL Elements! When you thought it couldn't get any worse, Elements pull out their trump card to prove you wrong.

[Zetanio]

Elements pls.

[Gryffes]

That game lol.

[Dantrag]

Someone tell me what happend...

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflege...g_eu_lcs_2015/

That's just stupid... 10-0-8 Froggen and they lost. Wtsoloqueue?

[Aevis]

Giants stole a baron, then Nyph gets caught, Reckless gets caught, Kev1n stupidly teleports in and gets caught. Giants rush in bottom and finish the game because death timers are 60s and the baron buff. Only have to watch the two following minutes here: http://www.twitch.tv/riotgames/b/626885237?t=196m40s Before that, Elements had the win in their bag, no question.

[Day]

lmao at that game

[D44kpunk]

pretty unreal.

i really liked wickd's description on his AMA though of why teams replace players when they aren't smart enough to identify a problem.

he said it gives them a "honeymoon stage." i imagine losing a game like that takes you straight from the honeymoon phase to breaking up though

[BadKarma]

Elements is complete garbage

[Gryffes]

Crazy eu games today.

[BadKarma]

I love watching Elements get stomped.

I really do.

[Viq]

Rapidstar made a video analyzing the CLG vs TSM game. If you haven't seen it, you should check it out. Really good stuff. He also analyzed the DIG vs. TSM game from the previous week on his blog, and I didn't find a translation anywhere so I went ahead and translated it. It's a great read if you are interested, but it's fairly long so I'll dump it into a spoiler.

Spoiler: show

• Ban

DIG – Rumble, Kassadin, Annie: Champions that can disrupt a split push, and champions that can instantly initiate or join in a fight.

TSM – JarvanIV, Lissandra, Ahri: Champions with strong initiation, as well as Ahri, who is currently OP.

• Pick

DIG [Rek’sai]: A strong pick that can be swapping into either top lane or the jungle. You can tell that it’s the most important pick for DIG’s team comp.

TSM [Sivir, Morgana]: TSM first picked a bot combo that has strong push potential, and also has a favorable matchup against almost any other bot lane.

DIG [Vi, Corki]: It may have been better for them to pick a different champion in the jungle than Vi. TSM already picked Morgana, which can make it extremely difficult to land Vi’s ult. Lee Sin or Rengar would have been better picks here. In particular, Lee Sin would fill the same role as Vi in a split push comp, but is a safer pick.

TSM [Maokai, Lee Sin]: Maokai is a very safe pick for the top lane, and Lee Sin is an all-around good pick for the jungle, so they were able to hide their final team comp.

DIG [Azir, Thresh]: Azir is an OP mid, and Thresh is fine for any team comp.

TSM [Xerath]: They completed a safe team comp with Xerath, who has the ability to fight Azir in mid.

• Pick/Ban Breakdown

TSM picked a balanced team comp that will have an easy time in the laning phase. By picking 1 tank (Maokai), 2 utility/support (Lee Sin, Morgana), and 2 attackers (Xerath, Sivir) they distributed the roles evenly. Sivir is strong in skirmishes, and Maokai + Morgana can ensure the team’s survivability while Xerath pokes and even can lay down some AOE damage. When it comes to taking towers, they can win off skirmishes, small-scale sieges and full team sieges. They have great synergy if they can last into the mid- and late-game. They just have to be a little careful during the early game.

DIG’s pick/ban is not that good. They picked champions that have a strong laning phase, but this comp is more dependant on the players’ performance than the actual synergy of the teamp comp. Also, the TSM team comp has ways to deal with the engage from Vi and Rek’sai, so there is no way for them to get penetration. If they want to win this game, there are two conditions that absolutely must be met. First, Rek’sai must get strong. Second, Thresh and Vi must win the vision war. If they win the vision war, a big Rek’sai can split push effectively, and if the opposing team groups up Azir and Corki can zone them out while Thresh and Vi look to set up a pick that will allow them to gain advantages little by little. It’s not a game that would be easy to win. Vi has too many variables to contend with.

• Game Analysis

1:55 (Start of the game) : DIG’s comp must build up Rek’sai. They set up Corki in a solo lane, and pushed the lane to get early XP. The first gank attempt went to the top lane to try to give Rek’sai an early advantage.

2:20 : Dyrus was able to do some jungling at level one, so he teleports to lane after picking up jungle xp. Because of this, Thresh and Vi go straight up to the top lane for a gank. This was an effective gank. Even though Dyrus managed to last a long time, by getting killed right after teleporting to lane, he suffered a heavy loss. He didn’t even kill a single minion, and allowed DIG to freeze the lane. If Rek’sai had set up the freeze and returned to base, he would have been able to teleport back to lane before Maokai returned. Maokai would be down in level and items, facing a frozen lane with nothing he could do about this situation.

2:45 : Lee Sin saw the three-man gank on top and decided to dive bottom.

3:20 : The level 1 Corki burned his flash, his only survival tool, early. He then died without even using a skill. If he had used a skill or two, he might have been able to take one or two members of TSM down with him. Also, this situation was influenced by the top lane, but Rek’sai came to bot to try and offer some assistance. This left Vi alone in the top lane to get all the xp there, and broke the freeze that had been built. If Rek’sai had simply used his teleport to return to top lane and hold the freeze, he could have totally kept Maokai out of the game, but by using his teleport to go bot, they gave up their advantage.

8:10 : Vi farmed the top lane minions by herself, so she leveled up much faster than Lee Sin. In order to snowball the game, they could not afford to fail the next gank. However, Dyrus instinctively tossed saplings in the right spot to find Vi, wasting a lot of her time.

9:10 : After that, Vi went right to the bot lane to try and capitalize on the advantage she had over Lee Sin. There wasn’t an opportunity for a gank, so Thresh set up a ward to check Dragon. Upon seeing that Lee Sin wasn’t around, DIG took the dragon. This is the kind of play that DIG needed to continue to do in order to snowball the game.

10:50: Thresh’s ward spotted Lee Sin, and a fight between both mids and jungles broke out. However, because of the wall around the wolf camp, Azir wasn’t able to join the fight right away. Also, Xerath landed all of his skill shots to kill Vi, which was huge. The loss of this 2 vs. 2 fight by DIG would go on to have a major influence on the rest of the game.

11:50 : Maokai recovered well after a rough start to the laning phase. There wasn’t much of a cs difference, and getting killed here 1-v-1 didn’t have a large impact on the game. This play just reminds us that Rek’sai had been in a great position to get huge over time if he only hadn’t tried to teleport bottom earlier in the game.

13:30 : The game became much harder for DIG after losing that 2 vs 2 mid/jungle fight both in terms of the mid lane matchup, and Vi’s inability to gank. Xerath can poke from far away, making it hard for Vi to get a good timing for a gank. Azir, like Kayle, deals damage continously over time, lacking in burst damage compared to other mid champions. If Vi goes in an lands her ultimate, it’s hard to say how much help she would be able to receive. In the end, she waited far back in the river, but had to leave without getting an opportunity to gank.

15:40: Vi had to try a similar gank, but Xerath had already taken over the mid lane.

16:10 : Vi had her first successful gank, but they needed it much earlier if they wanted to snowball. Now it’s simply too late.

16:30(17:30) : Azir went in to offer backup as his team tried to catch Morgana, but without any vision he was caught out and killed by Xerath. This fully tipped the scales in Xerath’s favor in the mid lane. DIG still went after the dragon, but because of Azir’s death they had to retreat. In the end, they lost the dragon and fell further behind in gold.

18:50 : While TSM was out warding DIG’s blue buff, DIG did well to group up in mid and push down a tower. That’s the benefit of doing well with their vision. Vi should have picked either top or bottom lane and babysat it to knock down some towers. This would have given Rek’sai the space needed to set up the split push. Unfortunately, DIG never saw this potential advantage.

20:00 : DIG did a good job taking a tower trade. They decisively pushed down the bot inner turret, and now have to set up the vision for Rek’sai to split push. With two towers down in the bottom lane, Rek’sai could split push quite deep.

21:05 : TSM is really dominating the vision now. With little time left before dragon comes up, they make use of DIG’s recall timing to put down some deep wards, which they would use to control the rest of the game.

22:35 : DIG needs to clear TSM’s vision and follow Vi’s lead, but they continue to give up vision control. In this situation their comp can do nothing except continue to fall behind in gold.

23:00 : This is the most important event. Vi just had to use her ult. Maokai uses his teleport, but Xerath or Morgana had to initiate before he got there. Xerath was in a spot where he could have been locked down by the Vi ult and Morgana may not have been able to react in time with the shield. Vi has to try the initiation there, but instead pulls back to the mid lane. Her team follows, and loses their position while walking back to their own tower. As Maokai came in, this created a 4-1 pincer for TSM. Sivir popped her ult, and a Maokai W, Sivir Q, and Xerath EW picked off Thresh to create a 5-on-4. Here DIG had to retreat, but instead made things worse. Vi went in on Sivir. If Vi had gone in on Xerath, the only defense would have been a Morgana shield, but Sivir was able to use her own Spell Shield to, making it impossible for Vi to land the ult. This was a really poor decision. Meanwhile, Maokai was coming in from the side, which DIG’s backline could not ignore. Rek’sai was hit by Maokai’s Q, which prevented any follow up on Vi’s initiation. Had flash been used by Rek’sai, the result would still be bad, but DIG would not have suffered as great a loss as they did. With Sivir and Xerath free to deal damage, the fight quickly ended without Rek’sai even entering the fight. Rek’sai isn’t the kind of tank, like Mundo, that blooms at the end of a team fight. Because the Rek’sai’s positioning was so bad, it seems she either didn’t want to fight or simply made a judgement error.

23:40 : After winning the team fight and taking Baron, the game should be just about over.

26:00 : The chance of winning against Sivir and Xerath with Baron-buffed minions is virtually zero. TSM would have been fine winning if they play well and don’t allow themselves to get picked, because they can’t lose a team fight. As the game goes on, DIG could try to fight once Baron buff is down, but TSM could still slowly push down towers for an easy win even without the Baron.

27:30 : Rek’sai successfully split pushed to take a turret, but this play would have been better if DIG had been able to clear wards first.

28:20 : Rek’sai managed to get all the way down to take the top inner turret, but by this point the game was so far in TSM’s favor that they had no trouble chasing her down.

30:40(31:45) : When Maokai’s ult is down, his defense is much lower. Vi has to try and lock down Xerath, but instead goes after Maokai while his ult is down. The result is a crushing defeat. Again, Rek’sai does not enter the fight. This may have been a good idea individually, but her not going in caused problems too. After Vi died, Rek’sai should have gone in on the bottom side of the fight where DIG had a 3 vs. 2 advantage. Lee Sin, Sivir and Morgana were on the right side wall, and if Rek’sai went in on that back line she would have created a 4-on-3 fight which could have ended positively.

32:30 : Here we see the difference between the two teams’ strength. TSM can’t lose on DIG’s side of the map.

35:00 : No matter what DIG does, they will lose. Rek’sai needed to go in like this earlier.

• Reasons for DIG’s Defeat

1. They almost won the game in the top lane early on, but Rek’sai teleporting to bottom lane after Lee Sin’s dive allowed Maokai to get into a lane that should have been lost.

2. Vi’s early ganks were uneffective, and after losing a mid/jungle skirmish she gave away vision control around mid. The overall vision war was lost from here on.

3. Rek’sai had almost no presence in team fights, and the rest of her team didn’t create a situation where she could split push effectively.

Also, here's the video of CLG vs TSM in case you missed it: