NA/EU LCS Pro League discussion

[BadKarma]

Being a fan of c9 right now is actually painful

[BadKarma]

Also tank Ekko is the worst thing ever

[Gryffes]

C9 feels like CLG right now.

[BadKarma]

Meteos Balls and Lemon have all been shit,

Jensen and Sneaky are at least trying to create somethibg

[D44kpunk]

c9 looked better in that game than any of their recent games

[BadKarma]

I know. But a lot of that was incarnation finally showing his potential to an extent.

[D44kpunk]

i think ekko just isn't really a meteos champion, he seemed uncomfortable on it and the limited times i've played ekko makes me think he wasn't doing it right.

i think if you put him on any other conventional jungle pick c9 would have won that game.

i'm a CLG fan but i have mad respect for c9 so when they play each other i don't really care about the outcome, but i think c9 could have easily won with meteos on a different champion

[chazzyphizzle]

gamsu is so fun to watch on j4 lol

[Gryffes]

Calitrolz has used j4 before to counterpick as well, I wish we saw more interesting picks instead of the generic "MUST PLAY META OR RIOT WILL FINE US".

[BadKarma]

The only champ who can delete people faster then a J4 combo is rengar

[Dantrag]

Draven, he can delete other squishies like no ones business.

[ringthree]

This weekend I was thinking that it might be time for TSM to consider benching WT because his score lines have been pretty consistently below expectations for a while now. Monday morning, boom, Keith to the rescue.

[D44kpunk]

problem isn't turtle, santorin is garbage.

0 presence top, the circlejerk is "DYRUS SUCKS LOL REPLACE OMG DYRUS SO BAD" so TSM changes things after getting obliterated internationally to give top lane more focus. what happens? the dyrus hate instantly stops and turtle starts looking lackluster due to 0 presence bottom.

you are not even a diamond 1 jungler if you can't have some presence in all lanes. especially since his go-to is rek'sai a jungler who should be able to react to anywhere.

i realize this is strategy, and if TSM wants to keep playing how they are (they will get obliterated internationally by any decent bot lane) keith is probably a better fit. if they want to win, replace santorin with someone who is somewhat impactful.

[Dantrag]

Also tank Ekko is the worst thing ever

Had a tank ekko on the other team, he got shit stomped(he jungled too).

[ringthree]

problem isn't turtle, santorin is garbage.

0 presence top, the circlejerk is "DYRUS SUCKS LOL REPLACE OMG DYRUS SO BAD" so TSM changes things after getting obliterated internationally to give top lane more focus. what happens? the dyrus hate instantly stops and turtle starts looking lackluster due to 0 presence bottom.

you are not even a diamond 1 jungler if you can't have some presence in all lanes. especially since his go-to is rek'sai a jungler who should be able to react to anywhere.

i realize this is strategy, and if TSM wants to keep playing how they are (they will get obliterated internationally by any decent bot lane) keith is probably a better fit. if they want to win, replace santorin with someone who is somewhat impactful.

I don't know man, Turtle has looked pretty mediocre even in games where he should have crushed. From MSI onward, he has been really lackluster. Additionally, his team fight presence has dropped a lot. While I think that Santorin is a bad fit for TSM, I think Turtles performance issues go beyond jungle pressure.

[BadKarma]

Turtle has always been trash except the rare game where he carries. He's horribly inconsistent. Dyrus and Bjerg are the reason tsm has been winning this solit

[D44kpunk]

I don't know man, Turtle has looked pretty mediocre even in games where he should have crushed. From MSI onward, he has been really lackluster. Additionally, his team fight presence has dropped a lot. While I think that Santorin is a bad fit for TSM, I think Turtles performance issues go beyond jungle pressure.

the problem with turtle is he always plays like he's fed and always plays like he is carrying.

when he isn't fed/can't carry he looks dumb attempting to make plays he does not have the damage for. the kid is a mechanical god but is overshadowed by the focus put on bjerg, if you watch him play solo q you'll see what i mean, you might have to spectate from the client he doesn't stream as much as he used to.

turtle is a bad fit for TSM only because santorin is probably the worst jungler in NA, hate to say it but i can't think of anyone who is worse. keith will be a better addition because he plays safe and is not a playmaker but i feel bad for turtle because he's a way better player than keith

edit: also comes back to TSM is a team that thrives on honey-moon phases(if you go back and look at when they replace players the team always starts doing well initially then shits the bed), keith will look decent initially and then they will fall off because that's what they always do and they'll look for someone else to scapegoat/replace. part of this stems from the heavy TSM-biased community being immature and giving poor performing players a lot of flac and the other part of it is just reginalds shitty management tactics

[ringthree]

the problem with turtle is he always plays like he's fed and always plays like he is carrying.

when he isn't fed/can't carry he looks dumb attempting to make plays he does not have the damage for. the kid is a mechanical god but is overshadowed by the focus put on bjerg, if you watch him play solo q you'll see what i mean, you might have to spectate from the client he doesn't stream as much as he used to.

turtle is a bad fit for TSM only because santorin is probably the worst jungler in NA, hate to say it but i can't think of anyone who is worse. keith will be a better addition because he plays safe and is not a playmaker but i feel bad for turtle because he's a way better player than keith

edit: also comes back to TSM is a team that thrives on honey-moon phases(if you go back and look at when they replace players the team always starts doing well initially then shits the bed), keith will look decent initially and then they will fall off because that's what they always do and they'll look for someone else to scapegoat/replace. part of this stems from the heavy TSM-biased community being immature and giving poor performing players a lot of flac and the other part of it is just reginalds shitty management tactics

First, the comparison to solo queue is pretty much irrelevant. If he was mechanically dominant, he wouldn't be losing lanes to other mid-level ADCs. Second, I think the references to his superior mechanics are a bit time worn now, yes, he was great before, but there are many more play making ADCs that are the same level as WT.

In the end, you can make all the excuses you want. This is the same team that won Katowice. Turtles score lines since then have been pretty crappy.

[D44kpunk]

kda means nothing in competitive especially when you funnel kills and farm, stop buying into montecristos stupidity that solo queue and mechanics aren't a factor of things, name a diamond player in the LCS

also i remember not a single person except for me saying dyrus is their best option in NA, everyone on this forum said he was shit and should be gone, now you've shifted to turtle being bad. there is a pattern here, realize it.

[Marootsoobutsu]

kda means nothing in competitive especially when you funnel kills and farm, stop buying into montecristos stupidity that solo queue and mechanics aren't a factor of things, name a diamond player in the LCS

also i remember not a single person except for me saying dyrus is their best option in NA, everyone on this forum said he was shit and should be gone, now you've shifted to turtle being bad. there is a pattern here, realize it.

I maintain that Dyrus needs to be better about warding, but I was also of the "Santorin is terrible" club. And, before that, Amazing-- hell, my tag on LoL for a long time was "Amazing plays lose games". I agree that Dyrus gets more flack than he deserves, but he's also not able to adjust well to just getting repeatedly slammed on. But really, Santorin contributes nothing, and he's going to highlight the weaknesses of everyone on TSM, because his absolute lack of presence means teams are going to be able to take advantage of those weaknesses, where a competent jungler can mask those weaknesses and let them instead play to their strengths.

So yeah, Wildturtle has some problems-- Dyrus does, too. But those problems are highlighted because of Santorin's inability to be where he needs to be. Because WT is mechanically better than the vast majority of even LCS ADCs in NA and Europe; his decision making isn't as good as some, but his mechanics are insanely good, even at the highest levels. If TSM had season 2/3 Meteos, they would be terrifying, possibly even on an international stage.