Rehauled Weapon Skills: tier lists

[Indalecia]

Well I'm glad I held onto this Death Sickle for years, fuck...

No shit, turned mine in an hour ago.

Here we go again...

[Motenten]

Whm/thf
Str1: 90+73 = 163
Mnd1: 85+114 = 199

Weapon: Beneficus -- d38
Max fStr: 12

Exactly 100 TP per hit and per ranged attack. Weaponskill at exactly 2000 TP.

Judgment

Spoiler: show

TP bonus raised at 2000 TP
Currently 2.0 at 1000 TP

WSC : STR: 50%, MND: 50% == 180
Total base: 180 + 38 + 12 = 230

Damage @2000:
2676 (below 3.0; puts upper limit at 4.03 fTP)
2880
2882



Range: 2745 @3.0 >> 915 @1.0
Factoring out base damage, fTP between 3.978 and 4.03~.
4.0 fTP at 2000 TP

Damage @3000 TP:
4343


4137-~~ >> 1379-~~
Factoring out base damage, fTP between 5.996 and ~~.
6.0 fTP at 3000 TP

Black Halo

Spoiler: show

TP bonus raised at 2000 TP
Currently 1.5 at 1000 TP

WSC : STR: 30%, MND: 70% == 188 (187 if truncated before adding)
Total base: 188 + 38 + 12 = 238

Damage @2000:
2138
2188
2191
2201
2223


Range: 2118-2136 @3.0 >> 706-712 @1.0
Factoring out base damage, fTP between 2.967 and 2.995
>> NOTE: if WSC stats are truncated before adding, WSC will be 187, and total base is 237
Factoring out base damage (237), fTP between 2.979 and 3.008
3.0 fTP at 2000 TP


*accidentally changed after 2000 tier ws set
Str2: 90+65 = 155
Mnd2: 85+122 = 207
WSC : STR: 30%, MND: 70% == 190 (using truncation before adding)
Total base: 190 + 38 + 12 = 240

Damage @3000 TP:
5096
5225


4977-5094 >> 1659-1698
Factoring out base damage, fTP between 6.913 and 7.075.
7.0 fTP at 3000 TP

Mystic Boon

Spoiler: show

TP bonus raised at 2000 TP
Currently 1.0 at 1000 TP

WSC : STR: 30%, MND: 70% == 187
Total base: 187 + 38 + 12 = 237

Damage @2000:
1400 (upper limit of 2.05 if this is below 3.0)
1447
1455

Range: 1386-1398 @3.0 >> 462-466 @1.0
Factoring out base damage, fTP between 1.949 and 1.970
2.0 fTP at 2000 TP

*accidentally changed after 2000 tier ws set
Str2: 90+65 = 155
Mnd2: 85+122 = 207
WSC : STR: 30%, MND: 70% == 190 (using truncation before adding)
Total base: 190 + 38 + 12 = 240


Damage @3000 TP:
2202
2246

2202-2244 >> 734-748
Factoring out base damage, fTP between 3.058 and 3.116.
3.0 fTP at 3000 TP (assuming I made a slight error in here somewhere)

Judgment: 2.0 > 4.0 > 6.0
Black Halo: 1.5 > 3.0 > 7.0
Mystic Boon: 1.0 > 2.0 > 3.0

[Motenten]

Have updated and pushed the spreadsheets for the weaponskills with known fTP values.

[Raelia]

No shit, turned mine in an hour ago.

Here we go again...

Yeap, doing round 2 for Dimidiation. Ayame makes it bearable and quick though.

[kjLotus]

Conclusion: I still can't conclude anything concrete without more examples of Resolution at in these conditions. However, since I find it unlikely SE ninja nerfed Resolution's fTP, it's very likely the level correction mod is still active, despite what SE claimed.

Feel free to point out any math errors I made.

I think it's more likely that the level correction mod is gone but the stat modifiers of all merit WS were lowered to be the same as before (ie. 5/5 reso is 85% STR). thinking back, the first post about WS changes mentioned bringing the others on par with merit WS, and the official changes did not list the actual values of the stat modifiers on merit WS (only that they change per merit point)

it makes no difference to the formula of course, but it makes more sense from a server programming point of view

[Raelia]

Beginning to suspect Cross Reaper has a massive attack penalty. Will diddle along about 4k and then I'll absorb Berserk from a Bomb or Sheep and start dropping 5k-9k at base TP.

Thing about attack penalties is they affect secondary hits too, so it's also affecting my Mala/Wobuffet selection for it. Like a reverse Shoha.

[Prothescar]

Tentative great sword WS stuff.

Dimidiation

Spoiler: show

D: 33
DEX: 125 (100WSC)
fSTR: 11
Total Base Damage: 144


1000TP (2.25):
948
951
965
973
-975
979
981
983
983
-985
989
990
991
995
-997
1003
1007
1012
1015
-1017
1018
1020 (2.25)



2000TP (4.5):
1892
1903
1922
1925
-1931
1944
1984
1986
1989
-1990
1992
1996
2019
2022
-2023
2025
2031
2034
2039
-2041 (4.5)



3000TP (6.75):
2868
2869
2871
2891
-2942
2943
2954
2957
2966
-2991
2993
3010
3022
3027
-3038
3045
3050
3052
3058
-3059
3061 (6.75)

Based on current data: 2.25@1000 -> 4.5@2000 -> 6.75@3000 with no fTP transfer.

[Byrthnoth]

Sorry guys, I haven't had any time lately. I did SA-Mandalic Stabs on THF/SAM against a Wild Rabbit with 300 TP, 104 DEX, 88 STR and Eminent Dagger and 300 TP for 4302, 4411, 4449, and 4522 Damage.
[ 62 base damage from DEX + 89 from Eminent Dagger + 17 from fSTR (probably) ] * fTP + 104 from SA

1156~1209 damage = 6.88~7.19 fTP

60% DEX, large attack bonus, 7ish fTP? Vajra is at least not painful to activate anymore


Edit: I suspect that Eminent Dagger's latent is not active on WS.

Here are four stabs using the same setup with Blitto Needle (136 base damage + modifier): 3674, 3621, 3546, 3635, 3710

6.83~7.20 fTP - Still likely an fTP of 7. The 3621 damage WS works out to an fTP of 7.02 if you assume 3.0 pDIF.



1000 TP - 1546, 1564, 1567, 1533, 1566 (2.45~2.68)
2.5 fTP

2013 - 2702
2001 - 2590, 2615, 2669, 2683
4.75 fTP

[Indalecia]

Gonna work on at least Entropy and Spiral hell tomorrow, then start going down the list.

[Prothescar]

Not sure how much further I'll be able to refine the data for Dimi. The numbers line up so beautifully for 2.25/4.5/6.75; unless anyone has other ideas I'm willing to settle for that atm. Gonna start working on finishing Resolution for now.

[Tye]

I did some Torcleaver testing.

I started as DRK, but changed to PLD when I remembered DRK gets Crit. Atk. Bonus (I wanted to keep it simple). I used Claymore (DMG:22, Delay:444) and 100 VIT on the Lv -1 rabbits in Ronfaure. Without any sTP, a 444 Delay GS gets 125 TP/hit, so I could get exactly 1000 TP in 8 swings.

First tests as DRK:
1000 TP: 1752
2000 TP: 2853, 2816, 2804, 2815

PLD:
1000 TP: 1606
2000 TP: 2637, 2635, 2582, 2594, 2585, 2564
3000 TP: 3391, 3368, 3254, 3414, 3366, 3412

Somewhat small sample size, but it looks like fTP is 4.75 / 7.5 / 9.6875. Since SE said only 2000 TP and higher had fTP raised, I only did 1 1000 TP WS to confirm that it is unchanged.

[Motenten]

Can't quite say that that's an accurate value for the 3000 TP result. Your damage values are consistent with anything up to an even 10.0 fTP. Needs more samples to narrow it down.

The other two values seem reasonable.

[Glecent]

Tested all of the damage varies with TP Archery WSs.

200 STR, 175 AGI
DMG: 297 Adlivun Arrow + Yoichinoyumi 119.
fSTR2 = 64

Flaming Arrow:

Screw Flaming Arrow, it's a hybrid WS and it did 1464 every time I used it, which would be 1 fTP. I tried 1000, 2000, 3000. Did 1464 every time. Tried 1000 and 2000 with 10 MAB added to the set used before. Yeah, it still did 1464.

Empyreal Arrow:

Spoiler: show

20% STR, 50% AGI.

(297 + 64 + 40 + 87) * 3 = 1464.

1000 TP: 2196
2000 TP: 3660
3000 TP: 7320

1.5 > 2.5 > 5

Refulgent Arrow

Spoiler: show

60% STR

(297 + 64 + 120) * 3 = 1443

1000 TP: 4329
2000 TP: 6132
3000 TP: 10101

3 > 4.24948 > 7

Empyreal Arrow: 1.5 > 2.5 > 5
Refulgent Arrow: 3 > 4.24948 > 7

Looks like we keep spamming Jishnu's.

[Bran Llywd]

Really. Just did a quick check on the spreadsheet, adjusting the minimum TP to weaponskill at. If using Insurgency, overall DPS (including melee) doesn't start going down til after 270 TP. It increases all the way up to that point.

Can you elaborate?

I tried using the most recent sheet, with the default buffs and my gearsets (Liberator) I still saw highest overall DPS with minimum TP set to 100, despite the significant WS boost.

[Raelia]

Can you elaborate?

I tried using the most recent sheet, with the default buffs and my gearsets (Liberator) I still saw highest overall DPS with minimum TP set to 100, despite the significant WS boost.

Full buffs, AM3 active, and losing two seconds per WS one third as often; it should be no contest...

[Motenten]

@Glecent: Refulgent at 2000 TP should be 4.25. Remember that it floors the final value.

Thanks for the data. Added to rng spreadsheet.

[Prothescar]

expanded data for Dimi, pretty much finalized. just need to check for an attack bonus now, which I'm 99% positive it doesn't have.

verdict so far: not very useful. Resolution's just too strong to overtake, I'm not sure what the new fTP points are for Res quite yet, but they're so high that Dimi's chances of being relevant outside of having better SC properties are quite slim. Maybe for ergon GS owners (if it has 30% WSD bonus, which I don't see why it wouldn't)

[Bran Llywd]

Full buffs, AM3 active, and losing two seconds per WS one third as often; it should be no contest...

Which is why I wasn't sure why 100> minimum was still coming out at a loss on the sheet for me. The default sets in the sheet actually show the same thing when minimum TP is set above 100, though I would have suspected this wouldn't be the case.

Edit: I see it was updated since my last post. Interestingly, non-Liberator Insurgencys are increasing overall DPS at 100-270 but lowering it with Liberator.

[ccl]

So unless Ukko crit rate went up by a ton, war is back to Great Sword/Reso spam?

[Sechs]

Updated the first page with the beta tier list for H2H WS.
If someone else wants to contribute with other data it will be welcome.

The goal of those tier lists is not to go too much into details (there's Wiki, this discussion or spreadsheets for that), but to get a quick glance at how WS have changed, how they compare to the old versions or the new versions and basically which other useful WS for each weapon category you can now count on compared to before.
It was meant to be something very simple just to achieve that.