Your MMO Experience Could Land You a Job

[Cantih]

For example, you know that if an organization's leadership is not pro-active and organizing things, that organization will fail. We all saw this happen with tons of linkshells where the leadership went AFK and the shell failed or splintered. People are people; these things are the same no matter what context.

Thiiiiis.
I know a failscade when I see one. (It also helps that I was able to add working Circuit City during it's death to my knowlegde base.)

[Enedin]

having played MMOs for so long, being able to get people to do things usually isn't that hard. Most just want rewards, some have no backbone and will roll over, and the rest don't get raid invites.

Motivating people to do something in FFXI wasn't hard (as they all wanted the rewards), getting them to do it the right way is what's hard. Some groups were full of competent, intelligent people who knew what was up and knew how to react to unexpected things, other groups had to be told exactly what to do at what time.

In Limbus (for example), micromanaging isn't that much of an issue as you followed the same pattern per zone, but in Nyzul this is very hard to do when you're constantly improvising and/or forming mini-teams. But when you can get to level 100 with a shitty group, simply because they understand and trust that they have to listen to you to get there, that really makes it worthwhile. It's not the same feeling as when you go with a group that knows each other perfectly, but it feels like more of an accomplishment.

Then again, there are those who are neither competent, intelligent nor willing to follow orders.

[Anoat]

"Well, I went 1/1 on RDM Maat fight."
"You're hired!"

[Titanss]

Or you could go to college, join intramural sports and clubs, learn to be a human being the old fashioned way instead of needing to desperately put your video game resume on a real one

lol

[Meresgi]

Honestly though, with how shitty most managers are. Managing a guild in any MMO is honestly the same thing. You'll always encounter people irl and in game that love to stand in "fire"

[Kohan]

Most of the other serious posts in the thread have addressed this, but a late response nonetheless:

that's almost like saying masturbating is a relevant experience for any job that requires good hand-eye coordination

Do you have great hand-eye coordination, and does the role require it? Good. Put it on your resume. I don't give a shit if you perfected it while whacking off. You just leave out that detail, and find other ways to fortify it if asked.

As a hiring manager at my company I would consider gaming experience in context as a small part of the interview. There are many transferable skills connected to MMORPGs. Attention to detail, communication(a big one here), leadership, organization, task orientation, and many others. However, if I ask about hobbies and relevant skills and they go geek+1 on me, it is a strike against them. I am looking more at how they respond to my questions, body language, eye contact, confidence, honesty, etc. than what exactly they do in video games that is relevant to their work. I don't want you to tell me your dps gear setup or talk about stats in The Old Republic (This actually happened and we did end the interview when he got very awkward).

This is how it works. If you did them, there's more specific facets that you can add, such as: designing and maintaining forums; programming and utilizing Excel worksheets; collaborating with a group of individuals via Skype, Ventrilo, and/or other means of voice chat; familiarity with all of the related languages, peripherals, and so on. Then you understand the skill you're presenting and sell it in a context that's related to the job in your interview.

I have to think that anyone who doesn't believe this is possible doesn't understand how to make the full range of their transferable skills work for them.

[Enedin]

This is how it works. If you did them, there's more specific facets that you can add, such as: designing and maintaining forums; programming and utilizing Excel worksheets; collaborating with a group of individuals via Skype, Ventrilo, and/or other means of voice chat; familiarity with all of the related languages, peripherals, and so on. Then you understand the skill you're presenting and sell it in a context that's related to the job in your interview.

Well said.

I have to think that anyone who doesn't believe this is possible doesn't understand how to make the full range of their transferable skills work for them.

You're very right. I think that many people are not capable of translating those 'MMO skills' into business-related assets where it is clear what the advantages are for the company.

[BaneTheBrawler]

I have to think that anyone who doesn't believe this is possible doesn't understand how to make the full range of their transferable skills work for them.

i got the same impression. getting a job is quite literally selling yourself. resume is your advertisement, interview is your sales pitch. spin everything you can.

[ronin sparthos]

Obfuscate the skills you've picked up running online activities in an MMO and play them up on a resume using creative wordplay. If the job is related to the industry, use the specific title by name.

If you get pressed in a standard employment situation, use more wordplay and cite a competitive, pro-active, lucrative online commodities community. Little do they know that online commodities is actually cornering the market on abjurations and selling them to desperate buyers looking to pay anything for 'dat Ebody. Or camping Sandworms for no-drop Serkets. Or running a raid team twice a week.

No need to nerd out on specifics because they're superfluous. You aren't lying about anything but merely shaping the resume like every other dipshit out there struggling for work.

[Roranora]

When I was visiting with a resume writer earlier in the year, I brought up some of my past LS leader roles in FFXI briefly and how I thought that translated into some of my skills and abilities, etc. She was only somewhat receptive to a number of the proficiencies Kohan just mentioned, but she acknowledged having no real gaming interest or understanding. (45-50 y/o single lady) We kinda let the MMO bit die after not much chatter.

A couple days later, I was forwarded the below by a friend/LS mate and sent it to the resume writer cause I thought it was an amusing coincidence. She thanked me for sending it to her, and said something sorta goofy that if you changed 'raiding' to some other distribution model, perhaps there's a Nobel Prize in it for someone.

Note my resume says nothing about FFXI, MMOs/guild leading, or gaming. I'd like to have it on there in a way, but it's yet to make the cut.



Some doe wrote his Ph.D. in Management about guild and raid-management in World of Warcraft (the direct link to the thesis was no good - sure someone can find it if interested)

Doctoral thesis: Computer games challenge old forms of strategy work

"Computer games are changing the way we organise. Occurring inside virtual worlds, new gaming organisations replace bureaucracy and formal structure with close-knit fellowships", states Mikko Vesa in his doctoral thesis "There be Dragons! An Ethnographic Inquiry into the Strategic Practices and Process of World of Warcraft Gaming Groups".

In his research, Vesa examines how one such new organisational form, the raid, conducts its strategy work. Studying groups of gamers inside the massive multiplayer game World of Warcraft, the research documents the actual practices of organising and strategising in the raid type of virtual organisations.

The research shows that strategy work in the raid type of virtual organisation is likely to promote the aspirations of its members rather than those of external stakeholders.

"This is because these organisations emerge from fellowships. Fellowships are closely-knit groups of people who share a common history and values. Organisations form and collapse organically as fellowships unite and disband", says Mikko Vesa.

Under fellowship pressure, the work of management becomes the orchestration of interventions that prevent the constantly mutating organisational construct from unravelling. Strategy work becomes an ongoing struggle to mediate fellowships' constantly diverging expectations of the future.

Vesa's research is based on a 39-month ethnographic study that he conducted as an active participant observer in raids. During his research Vesa participated in five raid organisations, occupying positions from a fringe trial member to a central raid officer. Vesa's research has been internationally noted and published.

M.A, MBA Mikko Vesa is defending his doctoral thesis in Management and Organisation "There be Dragons! An Ethnographic Inquiry into the Strategic Practices and Process of World of Warcraft Gaming Groups" at Hanken School of Economics.

Time: 4 December 2013, at 13
Place: Auditorium Futurum, Hanken School of Economics, Arkadiankatu 22

Opponent: Doctor Mike Zundel, The University of Liverpool Management School
Custos: Professor Eero Vaara, Hanken School of Economics & EMLYON Business School

[Quicklet]

"Computer games are changing the way we organise. Occurring inside virtual worlds, new gaming organisations replace bureaucracy and formal structure with close-knit fellowships"

This is a bit of exaggeration in my mind. I think you can draw a lot of comparisons between competitive raiding guilds in MMOs and competitive sports teams. Some of the details are different, but the core aspects seem to be much the same to me. Competing individual interests vs. mutual goals achieved together. We don't need to reinvent the wheel to justify an extrinsic value for MMOs, regardless of its veracity, and I might agree with many of the assertions in this person's thesis, but I always frown when people stretch their conclusions beyond what they can back up, a problem that unfortunately is extremely common in academia. Saying that guild structure is an entirely new form of management seems a bit far-fetched and unnecessary.

[The Stig]

Obfuscate the skills you've picked up running online activities in an MMO and play them up on a resume using creative wordplay. If the job is related to the industry, use the specific title by name.

If you get pressed in a standard employment situation, use more wordplay and cite a competitive, pro-active, lucrative online commodities community. Little do they know that online commodities is actually cornering the market on abjurations and selling them to desperate buyers looking to pay anything for 'dat Ebody. Or camping Sandworms for no-drop Serkets. Or running a raid team twice a week.

No need to nerd out on specifics because they're superfluous. You aren't lying about anything but merely shaping the resume like every other dipshit out there struggling for work.

Agreed, reminds me of this story on B3ta:

I have had the pleasure of giving a job to one of the most inventive guys I've ever met...

The interview went really well, we got on like a house on fire... and he had good abilities and knowledge... amongst his many interesting jobs, one was simply noted as "Marine Coating and Heating Technician". With mental pictures of clever boat power-systems and oil rig designs, I asked for more details...

He smiled and said "Summer job at the local Chippy"

Quick question, besides EvE Online and its huge battles, and FFXI with its Tiamats/Khimmy spawning at awkward times, is there any other game you'd drop what you're doing to rush back home/nearest computer to login and participate?

[hey]

Do you have great hand-eye coordination, and does the role require it? Good. Put it on your resume. I don't give a shit if you perfected it while whacking off. You just leave out that detail, and find other ways to fortify it if asked.

That's exactly the thing though. No one is going to deny that there are many real world benefits to video games, especially mmos. They require puzzle solving, hand-eye coordination, critical thinking, math, strategy, planning, etc etc. The problem is putting it on your resume or more likely to alienate people who are incapable of understanding this. Most people in a position to hire you will simply not understand. Maybe you'll get lucky and someone will, and it might be a significant factor in them deciding to hire you, but for 99% of people, looking for 99% of jobs, it simply makes no sense to even mention playing mmos, no matter how much relevant experience you've had from it, because the odds of it helping are so low, and the odds of it hurting are quite high. If you talk about it at all, you should be in the way ronin sparthos said.

[RKenshin]

For the interview of my current job, I brought printed copies of some of the excel sheets I created for FFXI/WoW theorycrafting and such. I didn't explain anything about the games or details of the relevance they had to them, but used them as a demonstration of my proficiency and passion in the area. It actually tied in very well and seemed to impress them, and needless to say I did get the job.

That said, I didn't mention anything about that in my actual resume (though I did say something about the proficiency/passion in the cover letter).

[Kohan]

That's exactly the thing though. No one is going to deny that there are many real world benefits to video games, especially mmos. They require puzzle solving, hand-eye coordination, critical thinking, math, strategy, planning, etc etc. The problem is putting it on your resume or more likely to alienate people who are incapable of understanding this. Most people in a position to hire you will simply not understand. Maybe you'll get lucky and someone will, and it might be a significant factor in them deciding to hire you, but for 99% of people, looking for 99% of jobs, it simply makes no sense to even mention playing mmos, no matter how much relevant experience you've had from it, because the odds of it helping are so low, and the odds of it hurting are quite high. If you talk about it at all, you should be in the way ronin sparthos said.

Which is why I recommended doing the same thing before ronin echoed as much. If the MMO experience is directly related or otherwise understandably relevant to whatever job you are applying for, you can be blatant about your information. If not, you dress it up. It's all about making your transferable skills work for you. If you're alienating anyone, you're doing it wrong, and you likely aren't the best candidate for the job you're applying to.

For the interview of my current job, I brought printed copies of some of the excel sheets I created for FFXI/WoW theorycrafting and such. I didn't explain anything about the games or details of the relevance they had to them, but used them as a demonstration of my proficiency and passion in the area. It actually tied in very well and seemed to impress them, and needless to say I did get the job.

And that's how you do it, folks. Work it to win it.

[Enedin]

For the interview of my current job, I brought printed copies of some of the excel sheets I created for FFXI/WoW theorycrafting and such. I didn't explain anything about the games or details of the relevance they had to them, but used them as a demonstration of my proficiency and passion in the area. It actually tied in very well and seemed to impress them, and needless to say I did get the job.

That's actually a great idea. I have a similiar story actually, and I didn't think of it until you posted that. As a graphic designer I used designs I made for FFXI/related stuff in my portfolio. Most notably these:

(spoilered for big images)

Spoiler: show

http://enedin.be/port/PortBGlogo1.png
http://enedin.be/port/PortBGbanner1.png

Not really FFXI but I wouldn't have made these if it wasn't for FFXI. Showing logo design, placement, colors etc. Some interviewers have asked me what this was for and I tell them I entered a design contest in an online forum I frequented.

Spoiler: show

http://enedin.be/port/PortIfrit.png
http://enedin.be/port/PortSky.png

I have always gotten questions about these during interviews, as people see it but don't understand it. I put this in an 'infographic' context which always got them somewhat intrigued (especially about the Sky map, I had one interviewer look at it in detail and she was kinda fascinated actually. Others take a look and go to the next item in the portfolio). Because I apply for design jobs I usually have someone before me who is interested in the process and the techniques used and I tell them about how I made these, but rarely about why I made these.

These are only a part of the full portfolio and I don't feel they are critical pieces, but I do use the maps to tell them about how I like to turn data into aesthetically pleasing and functional visuals.

More importantly, these items are a good indication of the style and color combinations I use in my vector illustrations so they do tie in well with the other pieces.

[Roranora]

Because I apply for design jobs I usually have someone before me who is interested in the process and the techniques used and I tell them about how I made these, but rarely about why I made these.

These are only a part of the full portfolio and I don't feel they are critical pieces, but I do use the maps to tell them about how I like to turn data into aesthetically pleasing and functional visuals.

More importantly, these items are a good indication of the style and color combinations I use in my vector illustrations so they do tie in well with the other pieces.

First of all, nice illustrations, and secondly, they sound like pretty good portfolio contributions, especially how you keep it all in proper context.

Don't lose it on an Ullikummi derail or talk about W. legs for all - they don't give a shit, clearly. But I can see interviewers appreciating that sky infographic, certainly as part of a solid portfolio overall.

[Bregor]

That sky map is fucking awesome, and also reminds me of how much of a cockblock SE put on Byakko. Even getting to his island was a chore.

[Rhyis.]

Don't lose it on an Ullikummi derail or talk about W. legs for all - they don't give a shit, clearly.

Ulli rage conversations would go over quite well with me.

I'd sit back and explain how I was that rdm prick that would snag ulli in a crowd of 50 and sell the stone to the highest bidder.

[Enedin]

First of all, nice illustrations

That sky map is fucking awesome

Thanks!

Anyway, my point was that any skill that you cultivated with FFXI as your motivation (be it design, spreadsheet management, people management etc.) can be valuable, it's just like you and others have said:

they sound like pretty good portfolio contributions, especially how you keep it all in proper context.

It's all about context.