Patch 2.3 Defenders of Eorzea Trailer

[Spider-Dan]

You can almost always say that [older MMO] has more relevant content than [younger MMO]. I just hope the day comes that XIV grows into its big-boy pants.

If you want to compare XIV-after-a-year to FFXI-after-a-year (i.e. pre-RoZ), then yeah, this game has way more content. But that's not really a useful goalpost.

[Grey Jorildyn]

We certainly can't compare the quantities of content, but we can talk about the quality. I think what's being put forth here really is the philosophy of the game's design. XIV is a top-heavy game. The more recent content has better gear, and older content has outdated content. It's as simple as that. XI took a broader approach to end game. Not everybody liked it however, and I suspect the great majority of MMO players do not prefer it. You'll find skewed results on a XI-born forum like this. Personally I am not a fan of gear hodge-podge where the best body comes from X and the best helmet from Y. XI's design always seemed more short-sighted to me because of that, not better.

[Kaslo]

I remember all the varied endgame content vanilla FFXI had. Those events were glorious. Wait, what were those again?

[Spider-Dan]

It's not even a fair comparison. A casual player will be at LV50 in ARR in two weeks, tops; 1-50 in vanilla XI took indescribably longer.

When your game has effectively removed midgame content (which is not necessarily a bad thing), it better have more endgame content. XIV has no midgame content on the same scale as LV20ish Mission 2-3 (Three Kingdoms) or LV40ish Mission 4-1 (Magicite).

[Cantih]

Just the Jeuno mini-HNMs. And the three beastman kings maybe?

You know, in addition to all the Oct 2003 english patches and forwards, someone really needs to hunt down links for all the JP launch to then patches and translate them properly.

[Voyage1970]

Just the Jeuno mini-HNMs. And the three beastman kings maybe?

You know, in addition to all the Oct 2003 english patches and forwards, someone really needs to hunt down links for all the JP launch to then patches and translate them properly.

While not extensive, This shows a brief summary of each update from JP Beta to WotG XI. Contains the major changes to the game in each patch and also the timeframe.

[Sho]

Because FFXI has a small dedicated fanbase that likes the game the way it was originally designed. Change the whole thing and people will complain. Can we please avoid more comparisons anyway? FFXI needed multiple expansions to even build that kind of endgame, FFXIV in not even 1 year old yet. 2014 doesn't mean that suddenly developers can match the amount of content an 11+ years old MMO has.

You can make comparisons in this instance because the two games are fundamentally different. Hence the reasons for obtaining gear is also different. As Grey said eariler, FFXIV is top heavy (built around level 50). FFXI in relation is more like a spread (along multiple level caps and endgame)-- it's literally vertical vs horizontal progression. To further enumerate upon this, FFXIV is a game where team play takes precedence over gear. FFXI in relation is a game where gear takes precedence over team play.

FFXIV doesn't have to try to be like FFXI at all, it's blazing it's own path as an MMO, one not taken by FFXI.

[ronin sparthos]

FFXIV doesn't have to try to be like FFXI at all, it's blazing it's own path as an MMO, one not taken by FFXI.

Yeah, it needs to stop depending on lockouts and instanced content if it wants to coalesce an endgame community and plug in players to a type of loyalty forged through daily logging in to hang out with friends. You know, an MMO.

XI did many things wrong but what it did succeed in doing is keeping people logging in. When taking a 3 month break becomes viable you're doing it wrong.

[Kaiyoko]

Yeah, it needs to stop depending on lockouts and instanced content if it wants to coalesce an endgame community and plug in players to a type of loyalty forged through daily logging in to hang out with friends. You know, an MMO.

XI did many things wrong but what it did succeed in doing is keeping people logging in. When taking a 3 month break becomes viable you're doing it wrong.

Taking a 3 month is viable? If you're only doing main story quests, I guess this could be the case. If you're doing end game XIV, you need to keep logging in and beating the content weekly otherwise you wont be prepared for the next patch. Beating 1-5 and 6-9 doesn't get your group geared to accomplish the next tier of content. It's not like you magically get to pick every pieces of gear you want when you complete coil. The same thing happened in XI, you didn't get all the pieces you wanted from 1 win in any of the content.

Edit: Sure you can spend 1 day a week to do all coil lockouts and soldiery for the week, but that isn't taking 3 months off.

Not to mention unless you have completed the current content how can you even state it's realistic to stop playing for 3 month? You have yet to even completed some content yourself from 2.0 release. You have no gauge on what is needed to do the content outside of main story, hard mode primals, CT, and Relic weapons based on your lodestone lol >_____>

[Slycer]

Taking a 3 month is viable? If you're only doing main story quests, I guess this could be the case. If you're doing end game XIV, you need to keep logging in and beating the content weekly otherwise you wont be prepared for the next patch. Beating 1-5 and 6-9 doesn't get your group geared to accomplish the next tier of content. It's not like you magically get to pick every pieces of gear you want when you complete coil. The same thing happened in XI, you didn't get all the pieces you wanted from 1 win in any of the content.

Edit: Sure you can spend 1 day a week to do all coil lockouts and soldiery for the week, but that isn't taking 3 months off.

Not to mention unless you have completed the current content how can you even state it's realistic to stop playing for 3 month? You have yet to even completed some content yourself from 2.0 release. You have no gauge on what is needed to do the content outside of main story, hard mode primals, CT, and Relic weapons based on your lodestone lol >_____>

Someone who started at 2.2 could hit level 50 and gear up with full Allagan and/or mythology gear without any lockouts - the same gear you were locked out for on a weekly basis prior to 2.2. I'd go as far as to say you could even take a six month break, if you come back at the right time (just after a IL increasing patch). Yoshida talked about this very same fact at length in the recent Japanese media interview I translated, indicating that it's all done by design to make it easy to come back after extended breaks. If you started the game at 2.2 and you had enough playtime, you'd probably be as ready for Second Coil as anyone else was when 2.2 came out within like three weeks tops, possibly less.

[Akiyama]

I remember all the varied endgame content vanilla FFXI had. Those events were glorious. Wait, what were those again?

Quoting you to laugh at that ne Minkus-like kid in GMW because he's a boss LOL.

So they mentioned the new DoL/DoH weapons for the next patch..pls god be offhand weapons

[Kaiyoko]

Someone who started at 2.2 could hit level 50 and gear up with full Allagan and/or mythology gear without any lockouts - the same gear you were locked out for on a weekly basis prior to 2.2. I'd go as far as to say you could even take a six month break, if you come back at the right time (just after a IL increasing patch). Yoshida talked about this very same fact at length in the recent Japanese media interview I translated, indicating that it's all done by design to make it easy to come back after extended breaks. If you started the game at 2.2 and you had enough playtime, you'd probably be as ready for Second Coil as anyone else was when 2.2 came out within like three weeks tops, possibly less.

I don't deny with help of players who know what they are doing and you're willing to grind that is possible, but realistically from the average player that isn't going to happen.

The point I was making is you're still behind and not experiencing the new content of the game when it's released patch to patch, by just beating and leaving right after (afk 3 months). Not only would you be behind on gear, you would most likely be replaced in the group you were playing with to accomplish that.

[Null]

I made another mule after 2.2 started. Took 3 days to go 1-50. 2 days to get ilvl 91.

[Lucavi]

Someone who started at 2.2 could hit level 50 and gear up with full Allagan and/or mythology gear without any lockouts - the same gear you were locked out for on a weekly basis prior to 2.2. I'd go as far as to say you could even take a six month break, if you come back at the right time (just after a IL increasing patch). Yoshida talked about this very same fact at length in the recent Japanese media interview I translated, indicating that it's all done by design to make it easy to come back after extended breaks. If you started the game at 2.2 and you had enough playtime, you'd probably be as ready for Second Coil as anyone else was when 2.2 came out within like three weeks tops, possibly less.

Regardless, that person still wouldn't beat T6-9 in any reasonable amount of time. So congrats, my friends who quit months ago can hit Ilvl90 within a week of coming back, and ilvl95 within a month. So? They still aren't clearing T8 and T9 today unless they get carried in a 7-man run of vets who are Ilvl100-110+ and have it on farm status.

I -want- my friends to be able to gear up to the last tier quickly. I don't want to have to wait for them to slowly gear up enough to contribute over a period of months. I'm happy with the current system in terms of gearing people out of the game quickly, but none of that gear will allow them to clear the current tier of content - the most relevant tier. That's the entire point.

Sure, they can wait till the next tier of coil comes out and then grind through and eventually blow through T6-9, but by that time, my group will have already made a significant dent in the latest tier of content, and they'll still be behind. More importantly, if they ever want to reach the pinnacle of the game's current strength, they'll have to put in the work when the content is fresh, just like everyone else. Its not like the game is just giving out the highest tier of content's gear for logging in.

None of that is my problem with the game. My problem is, mirroring some others in here, finding a way to get my entire FC involved into a group event that is both challenging and rewarding. Does that have to be coil? Hell no; we could never schedule 3-4 nights a week for 25+ people, and Christ if I'd want to. I'm an old man at this point.

I -WOULD- like Hunts to actually involve tough fights for sweet rewards, even if the rewards are simply badass vanity or open-slotted items with lots of room for materia and buffs. I -WOULD- like to be able to tackle the new CTs from day 1 with my FC, even if the rewards aren't as high tier as the drops from the last tier of coil.

@Null: Perfect example. Your ilvl91 would be a hindrance at best for T8-9 and chattel for slaughter at worst. It would take your mule weeks to hit the comfort zone in terms of pulling your weight in those two tiers. I'm perfectly fine with that system. Your mule isn't crushing max-difficulty content on day one, or even week one. You can immediately contribute to your FC with a little effort, which is fantastic, but you aren't becoming Max Raider #2 within a matter of a single week.

[Kaslo]

Quoting you to laugh at that ne Minkus-like kid in GMW because he's a boss LOL.

Spoiler

Spoiler: show

He's Minkus's son

[Edelweiss]

We certainly can't compare the quantities of content, but we can talk about the quality. I think what's being put forth here really is the philosophy of the game's design. XIV is a top-heavy game. The more recent content has better gear, and older content has outdated content. It's as simple as that. XI took a broader approach to end game. Not everybody liked it however, and I suspect the great majority of MMO players do not prefer it. You'll find skewed results on a XI-born forum like this. Personally I am not a fan of gear hodge-podge where the best body comes from X and the best helmet from Y. XI's design always seemed more short-sighted to me because of that, not better.

It'd certainly do a good job of keeping that old stuff relevant. XI really got some amazing longevity out of Kings/Limbus/Dynamis/Salvage, etc. and that wasn't a bad thing by any means (although some of it was horribly implemented and was fucking awful), as we always had shit to do. The only thing seemingly making Syrcus Tower relevant is the possibility of getting an Unidentified Allagan Tomestone, so it's kind of managing to not be immediately shit and worthless like Labyrinth of the Ancients was. The gear treadmill in XIV does get rather tiring, and it kind of devalues a lot of effort. Combine that with the RNG fuckery of cutting-edge Coil, and you're in for a bad time.

[Obsidian]

XI really got some amazing longevity out of things

It did so at the cost of many things that were added later being completely pointless from the outset.

[Lucavi]

It'd certainly do a good job of keeping that old stuff relevant. XI really got some amazing longevity out of things, and that wasn't a bad thing by any means, as we always had shit to do. The only thing seemingly making Syrcus Tower relevant is the possibility of getting an Unidentified Allagan Tomestone, so it's kind of managing to not be immediately shit and worthless like Labyrinth of the Ancients was.

Its something you'll always be able to run (at least once a week assuming perfect luck with drops) to gear out your alts, at least. Plus FFIII nostalgia has to count for something! If this game had Lunar Subterranean in it, I'd never leave it.

[Edelweiss]

It did so at the cost of many things that were added later being completely pointless from the outset.

Like Chocobo Raising? That ghetto augment system with the really terrible 2-Hour timer reductions?

Who gives a fuck. What worked, worked pretty well I guess, in the long-term.

Its something you'll always be able to run (at least once a week assuming perfect luck with drops) to gear out your alts, at least. Plus FFIII nostalgia has to count for something! If this game had Lunar Subterranean in it, I'd never leave it.

You can do this with Soldiery already*; or if you're at the mercy of the RNG, have your group capped out on a particular Coil II drop/be one of the non-primary people who can use yet another drop your group isn't really in need of.

*with the caveat that the iLv.100 Soldiery piece might suck ass or something, and the as-yet unknown Tower piece maybe not sucking as much

[Kaiyoko]

I made another mule after 2.2 started. Took 3 days to go 1-50. 2 days to get ilvl 91.

I've done the same thing with 3 characters now, I understand it's possible. All of the characters are finished coil 1-5, ex modes , and relics as well. But that's me playing with others on a weekly / daily basis and I'm assuming that's the case for you as well when you did it. If you didn't get help, I guess you could get that just doing dungeon spam, but you still need to get through the Coil content. I've went into DF and PF Coil 1-5 and EX mode primals, and even with full ilvl110, HA weapon, and echo I can't just make people play better and win. You have to get lucky with the right PF/DF groups to accomplish anything. An AVERAGE new player is not going to accomplish all of that content quick enough to experience current content in time to catch up each time.