Israel vs. Gaza round 99

[Andalusian girls]

Sure but their behavior is imminently predictable via realism. Internally, individual actors within a state may have divergent interests and disagreements, but those in control of the state apparatus will reliably act in the interest of those that comprise the state and no one else.

So given everything else we have established (that the LIO will never withdraw its backing of the Israeli state and that Hamas plays by the same rules), it seems fairly clear to be that the quickest and most efficient solution is the elimination of Hamas.

the behavior of Nazis is predictable as well but just once Gred i'd like to hear you say it's wrong

just once Gredival

is your heart not stone

but no as stated earlier i think your realpolitik assessment is wrong as well and a two-state solution is more viable than total Palestinian submission to their opressors. and also i find it demonstrably provable that, on occassion, states act in the best interest of those outside their borders. generally only when the cost is low and there is no conflict with domestic self-interest, but, still.

[Andalusian girls]

but most importantly gred

just between us girls, keep your views, keep your favored solution, keep your realpolitik analytical framework for every other post in this thread, but, just once, i desire to know if your heart feels something when you see the images that the rest of us see

[Yuri-G]

Well if you read the story it's because Hamas opened fire on them in public areas, in addition to the hostages being kept in a building full of civilians and families (ie human shields)

I also read that Israel covered their escape by using heavy artillery on areas with high civilian density.

[Gredival]

but most importantly gred

just between us girls, keep your views, keep your favored solution, keep your realpolitik analytical framework for every other post in this thread, but, just once, i desire to know if your heart feels something when you see the images that the rest of us see

Yes.

I simply lay more blame on the feet on Hamas than the rest of you seem to be willing to do, and I don't care to waste time dwelling on Israel's failures in the arena of the law of war vs. contemplating solutions for the root cause (caveat that I'm also not going to attribute Israel's existence as the root cause because settler colonialism is irresolvable)

[kuronosan]

I don't think this is like "hey the Nazis are really to blame for Jew killing" so much as it is Israel is figuratively fracking the Palestinians.

[Gredival]

Protestors in NYC waiving "Long Live Oct. 7th" flags and wondering why people support letting Israel flatten Gaza.

[Krandor]

Champagne socialists not understanding how to criticize Israel without descending into outright genocide/anti semitism has been shown to be a near impossible challenge.

[Milkster]

Protestors in NYC waiving "Long Live Oct. 7th" flags and wondering why people support letting Israel flatten Gaza.

This gives All Lives Matter energy and sounds like the racist white folks during the BLM protests

[archibaldcrane]

It's more like if the BLM protestors were waving Christopher Dorner banners (which, funny bit, but not productive to the cause)

Sent from my SM-A546U using Tapatalk

[Mertron]

long thread

https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/sta...680727250?s=46

[Andalusian girls]

can't believe the UN is so anti-semitic

what's next, allowing the truth to get in the way of outrage for hundreds of imaginary beheaded babies ?

[Andalusian girls]

maybe the real beheaded babies was the thousands of children Israel has murdered all along

[Guitarman]

"the UN was unable to identify due to lack of access to victims..."

"The UN found there was no order to commit sexual violence..."

Lot of stretches going on there. Ordered rape =/ not being raped. I'm sure Shani Louk's pantsless, bleeding corpse was that way just because. Of course, they can go find out now, because they found her corpse thrown unceremoniously in one of Hamas's tunnels like two weeks ago. Don't get me wrong, I very much hope none of that happened, I really do, but there's some lack of reading comprehension going on in that thread.

[Andalusian girls]

sure wasn't hard to find evidence of systematic sexual assault committed by the Israelis

[Elvis]

Protestors in NYC waiving "Long Live Oct. 7th" flags and wondering why people support letting Israel flatten Gaza.

yea, and there are plenty of pro-Israel folks saying worse stuff about Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims, etc. in general

just look at @StopArabHate or @StopZionistHate on Twitter for tons of examples

Funny that we only have news coverage of crazy pro-Palestine folks but NOTHING AT ALL about crazy pro-Israel folks, who are often as supremacist and unhinged as the settlers of Hebron

A 6 year old Palestinian boy was stabbed to death (his mom stabbed too) by a pro-Israel guy

Multiple Palestinian exchange students here in America have been shot up by pro-Israel and/or conservative ppl who heard them speaking Arabic or wearing keffiyehs

but yea, focus on some ugly protest signs

[Elvis]

"the UN was unable to identify due to lack of access to victims..."

"The UN found there was no order to commit sexual violence..."

Lot of stretches going on there. Ordered rape =/ not being raped. I'm sure Shani Louk's pantsless, bleeding corpse was that way just because. Of course, they can go find out now, because they found her corpse thrown unceremoniously in one of Hamas's tunnels like two weeks ago. Don't get me wrong, I very much hope none of that happened, I really do, but there's some lack of reading comprehension going on in that thread.

Shani Louk wasn't 'pantsless'

she was wearing the SAME outfit (a dress that had no back covering or something) she wore to the concert. she was not undressed

[Elvis]

Champagne socialists not understanding how to criticize Israel without descending into outright genocide/anti semitism has been shown to be a near impossible challenge.

Yea, kind of like all the Zionists who say 'turn Gaza into a parking lot' - like Rep. Max Miller who never faced any consequences for saying that shit repeatedly on Fox News

or Tom Cotton who said to 'bounce the rubble' in Gaza or the countless Israeli public figures who openly advocate genocide in Gaza

there's zero accountability for when Israel & its supporters say and do horrendous shit

but if its some random masked protester with a stupid protest sign, then they're exploited by the same unhinged supporters of Israel to push legislation censoring criticism of Israel

[Elvis]

Yes.

I simply lay more blame on the feet on Hamas than the rest of you seem to be willing to do, and I don't care to waste time dwelling on Israel's failures in the arena of the law of war vs. contemplating solutions for the root cause (caveat that I'm also not going to attribute Israel's existence as the root cause because settler colonialism is irresolvable)

Israel holds 1000s of Palestinians in jail WITHOUT charge

that's kidnapping, but no one gives a shit when Israel commits its crimes

Oct. 7th didn't happen in a vacuum

Israel is a genocidal apartheid State and has been periodically massacring the Palestinians in Gaza since the disengagement

[Gredival]

yea, and there are plenty of pro-Israel folks saying worse stuff about Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims, etc. in general

just look at @StopArabHate or @StopZionistHate on Twitter for tons of examples

Funny that we only have news coverage of crazy pro-Palestine folks but NOTHING AT ALL about crazy pro-Israel folks, who are often as supremacist and unhinged as the settlers of Hebron

A 6 year old Palestinian boy was stabbed to death (his mom stabbed too) by a pro-Israel guy

Multiple Palestinian exchange students here in America have been shot up by pro-Israel and/or conservative ppl who heard them speaking Arabic or wearing keffiyehs

but yea, focus on some ugly protest signs

I'm talking in the context of this thread, where people are wondering how and why the majority continues to support Israel.

The point I've made repeatedly is that, rightly or wrongly, those who want the status quo to change at held to a higher standard. The Civil Rights Movement succeeded when more aggressive demands for justice failed not because of the morality of the cause, but because of the ingrained biases towards the status quo. You have to win a PR war where there is asymmetric standards of acceptability. If AG's two state solution is to come to fruition, that's the only route to it.

Or otherwise, like I've pointed out, the best solution is to actually hope for Israel to achieve a complete and utter state of domination such that there cannot be conditions through which they disproportionately retaliate under pretenses of security.

[Elvis]

It is unlikely that Israel would voluntarily manage Gaza again, since it would fully transform the conflict into a civil rights struggle and shitlibs in America wouldn't be able to duck the issue of Palestinian rights by repeating slogans ('Israel has a right to defend itself').

Israel left Gaza originally due to demographics and as a way to consolidate control of the West Bank.

Israel's security pretext is the raison d'etre of its settlement enterprise.

So I doubt that. If anything, Israel will expand the Gaza envelope/'security buffer'.

Biden's UNSC cease-fire resolution removed the red-line about 'security buffers'. So Israel already has the green-light from America to annex more land (without Palestinians on it) under the pretext of 'security':

https://x.com/JacobMagid/status/1799973424116224355