The Ferguson, Missouri thread

[notorious bum]

The po-po all liars, the people would never lie, right?

My bad, the double bum-rush storyline, accompanied by blatant misreporting of the distance of an unarmed black kid is not enough to doubt a new narrative of.... a group of kids fleeing an off-duty rent-a-cop with a gun, followed by 1 dude jumping out of a bush (Trayvon-style) with a gun, cause that's how real life works.

[BaneTheBrawler]

But then cycle of distrust and animosity will forever continue...

yeah, but of the two groups in the cycle only one of them gets professional training. cycle has to be broken from the cops' end. expecting people to just up and trust officers who have proven they can't be trusted is silly.

[Karbuncle]

Then we have different definitions of "proven" is all Bane... cause I haven't had a single negative encounter with an officer yet(Except damn border pricks), though theres only been a handful of incidents. Probably not related to the fact I treat them with basic human decency though.

I'm not saying profiling/racists don't exist within the police force btw, I get its a very real thing, and I personally think that type of thing should be covered in a the psych evaluations if its not already in hopes of weeding these people out and removing them from the force... I just mean, its not a one way street when it comes to change, both communities need to take equal steps, because you can plainly see when the cops attempt to reach out its usually met with harsh criticism and mockery (just check the any numerous articles about cops and twitter and such, I wish I could remember specifics but I think there was one about a Detroit station reaching out with a song/dance thing with some cops and it was remixed into a song about beating suspects or something - Shit memory serves me well).

[kuronosan]

I've never had a negative experience with a cop either.

Then again, in not black and I don't look like a Mexican.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Probably not related to the fact I treat them with basic human decency though.

you know this is the ferguson thread, right? as in, the thread that started with an officer shooting an unarmed teenager under extremely suspicious circumstances?

assuming you haven't gotten the threads mixed up, do you realize the implications of what you said, here? that if you're mean to the cops it's okay for them to shoot you.

never mind the fact that your anecdotes/experience mean less than nothing unless they take place in a community with a similar relationship to their police force. My own personal experience with the police is fine and dandy, but i'm white and they don't go around shooting people for being rude, so that has nothing to do with anything in this thread.

[Karbuncle]

assuming you haven't gotten the threads mixed up, do you realize the implications of what you said, here? that if you're mean to the cops it's okay for them to shoot you.

... wat.

I mean, are you saying I really have to clarify that I'm not saying "Being mean to a cop is a death sentence"? That actually depresses me in a way I've not felt in a long while. Guess I should requote this just to be on the safe side so I'm not verbally gunned down with excessive force by the irony squad.

I'm not saying profiling/racists don't exist within the police force btw, I get its a very real thing, and I personally think that type of thing should be covered in a the psych evaluations if its not already in hopes of weeding these people out and removing them from the force.

Perhaps even adding "and having their previous arrest records and such looked into with greater scrutiny.

[Gokku]

if no charges are pressed and lets say riots spark in major citys after the incoming "clean shoot" ruling would the government crack down? is there enough rage to change things from just another dead person to and actual ISSUE in america?

[Nephlite]

Then we have different definitions of "proven" is all Bane... cause I haven't had a single negative encounter with an officer yet(Except damn border pricks), though theres only been a handful of incidents. Probably not related to the fact I treat them with basic human decency though.

I'm not saying profiling/racists don't exist within the police force btw, I get its a very real thing, and I personally think that type of thing should be covered in a the psych evaluations if its not already in hopes of weeding these people out and removing them from the force... I just mean, its not a one way street when it comes to change, both communities need to take equal steps, because you can plainly see when the cops attempt to reach out its usually met with harsh criticism and mockery (just check the any numerous articles about cops and twitter and such, I wish I could remember specifics but I think there was one about a Detroit station reaching out with a song/dance thing with some cops and it was remixed into a song about beating suspects or something - Shit memory serves me well).

Unfortunately (and people are gonna go crazy when I say this), but psyche evaluations are terrible at deciphering bias. It's not an exact science. You can still racially profile someone without being a racist. People do it all the time based upon perceptions and interactions through cultural exchanges and what they're taught.

In other words, bias is a learned behavior and easy to marginalize because no one will admit they're a closet racist. Police based racial profiling is also a learned experience, and is actually a technique used to identify suspects and profiles of individuals. It is the red-headed stepchild of police interactions that no one will admit that they do, but the police do. If you don't know how to profile like a police officer prior to applying to be one, your psych evaluation and polygraph will not pick up on that type of behavior.

you know this is the ferguson thread, right? as in, the thread that started with an officer shooting an unarmed teenager under extremely suspicious circumstances?

assuming you haven't gotten the threads mixed up, do you realize the implications of what you said, here? that if you're mean to the cops it's okay for them to shoot you.

never mind the fact that your anecdotes/experience mean less than nothing unless they take place in a community with a similar relationship to their police force. My own personal experience with the police is fine and dandy, but i'm white and they don't go around shooting people for being rude, so that has nothing to do with anything in this thread.

He's not alluding to that at all, and touching on something that I have tried to convey before. If I contact you with the "Hello, Sir. I'm Officer Nephlite with..." and you run your mouth a mile a minute and scream, rant, claim racism, etc. at me from the very start, you will be treated differently. And it's not because you're black and I'm white. It's simply because you're an asshole.

The police are expected to deescalate situations, and I'll give you that. But if you come out immediately as an asshole, you should take some personal responsibility and not be an asshole, because I didn't do shit to you except pull you over. And if you're an asshole, I'm going to treat you like one. Police escalate situations just as fast as regular people do. I bet you half of non-compliant mouthy people start out that way and don't need the officer to escalate them. They do a good job all on their own.

if no charges are pressed and lets say riots spark in major citys after the incoming "clean shoot" ruling would the government crack down? is there enough rage to change things from just another dead person to and actual ISSUE in america?

A serious review of policy and procedures of what's acceptable will have to occur. It'll probably go all the way to the Supreme Court, as it has in countless cases before. And it'll get shot down, or new rulings will be put in place.

In the end, I'm almost pretty positive the courts will still rule in favor of Objective Reasonableness. Like they did with Graham, V. Connor, you have to put yourself in the officers shoes at the time of the incident. Since it's impossible to recreate or directly replicate the emotions, experiences, perceptions, and thoughts of the individual officer at the time of the incident, and because Officers are held to a much higher standard and given more latitude in situations like this (because they are trained to recognize threats and incidents better than average people), they'll likely still rule in favor of the officer in most situations.

Edit:

Just for clarification, they ruled against the officer in Graham V. Connor because police officers during that time period were not taught to use force on force and did not know of the concept of Objective Reasonableness until it was introduced as a standard set by FLETC.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Police escalate situations just as fast as regular people do.

i'm glad you can see that, but do you understand why this is such a huge fucking problem? most people don't carry guns. cops do. most people don't have training. cops do. even you admit it is your job to de-escalate, and yet you constantly defend other cops who are actively sabotaging their own job. know what happens when the rest of us sabotage our place of employment? we get fucking fired. you guys literally have to kill someone in the process before that even comes onto the table.

[6souls]

Today's details;

correct name is "Vonderrit Myers"
17 shots fired by officer
3 by the suspect
9mm Ruger recovered along with 3 shell casings
Group of 3, not 4
Unrelated, Vonderrit was set to make a court appearance in November for "charges of unlawful use of a weapon and resisting arrest"

Market surveillance footage before the incident shows no sign of a weapon, per the store manager - https://twitter.com/joelcurrier/stat...341632/photo/1



police media briefing



https://news.vice.com/article/death-...s-new-protests

I also read that the officer was in full police uniform while working for Hi-Tech Security Inc.

Their site is nonexistent - http://hitechsecurityinc.com/ and they have mixed reviews via the city search - http://www.citysearch.com/profile/57...urity_inc.html

[Nephlite]

i'm glad you can see that, but do you understand why this is such a huge fucking problem? most people don't carry guns. cops do. most people don't have training. cops do. even you admit it is your job to de-escalate, and yet you constantly defend other cops who are actively sabotaging their own job. know what happens when the rest of us sabotage our place of employment? we get fucking fired. you guys literally have to kill someone in the process before that even comes onto the table.

So you say. There's plenty of examples of police getting fired without killing someone in this very thread. It doesn't matter because you're too stubborn and hardheaded to read any of it and are blind to the truth that it's in no way shape or form a normal or common occurrence for an officer to needlessly escalate a situation. But, let a few examples and an "angel" descended from heaven who gave their completely unbiased and totally truthful account to CNN be your determining factor here.

And again, I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But your perception is like most who judge by numbers or what knee-jerk bullshit news column puts out and you take it for fact. "The police kill too many people in America!" How many of those killings were in self defense or in the defense of others? No one cares. They want to use ambiguous laws like the Illinois statute that says you can resist Law Enforcement to justify killing Police Officers, yet cry when they're killed after pulling a gun on someone.

[Melena]

Well, Actually I looked into just to see.

someone would need to confirm, but I believe the average police side arm is a .40 Smith and Wessen, which has a clip size of

Capacity: 15+1 Rounds

So I think the article was just reporting on the incident under the assumption the police officer unloaded the entire clip. If he did, that would take quite some time and be significant overkill, even if he was shot at, I can't imagine this ending well for him if it really does turn out there are 16 bullets in him, because I can't imagine he stood there and took 16 shots without hitting the ground, in which case the officer would have needed to continue firing his round on a man laying on the ground.

K well, i can't say that with a straight face theres just no way this kid has 16 bullets in him, would mean a 100% hit ratio and the shooting of a corpse at some point.

But yah, hopefully they learned from Fergusson and release police reports and autopsy information relatively quickly here.

Depends on the agency. Some use Sig Sauer's, some use Glocks, some use Smith and Wesson. My Dad's issued gun was a glock and I want to say it was a 17 round clip, but could be off. I've only gotten to handle it a couple of times, shoot once with it a few months ago.

[notorious bum]

Thanks for the update 6souls.

[Karbuncle]

Thanks for the update 6souls.

Agreed.

Though the comments in that article are giving me logic cancer. I'd avoid reading them, unless of course you're interested in reading worst-than-KKK African American racists claiming racism and talking about shooting cops instead of protesting.

No I'm serious, thats there, and very abundant.

[Acevalefor]

Re: Bane,
I know of 3 officers who were fired recently in Portland, OR for inflating their OT hours and claiming time when they were actually off golfing and camping. Another 2 high-ranking officers were terminated in 2011 after an audio recording of them talking about "the police taking over the city of Portland". Basically, they were talking about a military style coup. There are several other cases I know about just from Portland/Beaverton/Tigard. Not a single one of those cases involved killing anyone.

[notorious bum]

Agreed.

Though the comments in that article are giving me logic cancer. I'd avoid reading them, unless of course you're interested in reading worst-than-KKK African American racists claiming racism and talking about shooting cops instead of protesting.

No I'm serious, thats there, and very abundant.

There's a lot of ignorant folks on the internet. That kind of craziness gets dealt with quickly in real life, it has no place in this movement. It's a lot easier to say shit like that behind a keyboard; as I had pointed out earlier, that woman who has been seen at the protests regularly, secretly subscribes to at least some of the Black Supremacy doctrine. It's much easier to avoid doing the real work and leadership needed to change circumstances and simply resort to a racist "Us vs. Them" mentality.

[kuronosan]

Us versus them is essentially how all ignorant people avoid discussing a topic.

[notorious bum]

Last night was a mini-flashback to the same escalation tactics seen after Mike Brown. Police roll-up thick, tracking protests with helicopter, once the march reached a major intersection in the city, they made everyone move to the sidewalks and some obviously resisted. The SWAT arrives, police start kettle maneuvers and end-up getting excited and started macing everyone. I watched the Argus stream and their streamer got maced along with other members of the media, intentionally.

This video shows the fatboy macing everyone on the sidewalks.



Afterwards, the police blocked the entire intersection for hours, many people trapped and not able to get home. Eventually they call in the LRAP, ready to fire tear gas and move a small group of the protestors in one direction, telling everyone "This is an unlawful assembly, if you do not disperse, you will be subject to arrest or other actions." They pushed a group into a nearby park, where they chased and arrested a few.

Police alleged that a random knife was thrown, this has not been confirmed by any of the media that were covering from all sides. There were without a doubt some young folks in the crowd shouting shit at the police, this protest had many new faces and regulars from Ferguson.

Here's one of the leaders from Ferguson being lied to by the colonel who showed-up an hour or so after the crowd was maced, divided, and returned to try to get to their cars and leave.

"You said you would retreat your people in a show of good faith because we've been peaceful." ~@BrownBlaze (10:58) http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9...ideos/64460770 …

The Ferguson frontline regulars, whom 1 of the police said he respected... there was 1 other police later who was willing to talk at-length to @Netaaaaaaaa and he also sounded supportive.

[Salodin]

It's almost mid Oct, isn't there some deadline coming up in this case soon?

[Nephlite]

It's almost mid Oct, isn't there some deadline coming up in this case soon?

There's a lot of evidence to sift through, and it was put on hold because of one of the jurors tweeting the case. Grand jury investigations can take months, depending on how well the prosecution presents everything. There's experts to be called, dozens of witnesses, laws to learn, etc.