The Ferguson, Missouri thread

[Quicklet]

The official autopsy report (not the independent one nor the one performed by the DoJ) was leaked.

http://www.stltoday.com/online/pdf_c...a4bcf6878.html

More testimony also leaked.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/a...vClIaY.twitter

Skimmed through the report, nothing particularly jumps out at me. The preliminary details of the incident were given by the STLPD so that has to be weighed against other witness testimony. Frankly, it's hard to believe the police narrative against all the other sourced witness accounts, but without video of the incident nor more details about how McCulloch presented the case, it seems unlikely that a grand jury is going to indict -- which is why this whole thing should've been tried in a public court from the beginning, or with a special prosecutor who doesn't have obvious conflicts of interest. Nobody can look impartially at the evidence presented in defense of Darren Wilson and say it's credible, so the entire thing looks like a sham designed to lead to a no-indictment, not to the truth, whatever it is.

Also, who keeps selectively leaking information about the grand jury where evidence is supposed to be kept secret? The whole thing looks rotten and it's just going to piss people off.

[Nephlite]

Skimmed through the report, nothing particularly jumps out at me.

You need to read it. There's a few things that I noted that are pretty significant:

1. There's bruising on the right side of his hip. This is either consistent with him being hit by the door of the car or he was dragged in to the vehicle by Wilson and he rolled his body to non-dominant position to get away.

2. The condition of Michael Brown's hands and arms are pretty detailed and supports that Michael Brown was attacking Wilson. Brown is left handed, with the majority of the damage concentrated on his left hand and forearm. I've seen a lot of pathology reports of deceased victim's with defensive wounds, and the way it looks like, Brown was literally beating the shit out of Wilson.

3. None of the bullet wounds have stipple or powder, which disproves a close proximity shot. Had to be at least five feet away to escape GSR, unless the majority of it ended up in the vehicle (which isn't impossible).

4. The head wounds are fatal, but the direction of the bullets travel tells me he was turning his body to his left as the shots were fired and was possibly leaning forward or on his knees when the shots were fired. None of them entered through the back, so what I'm gathering is Wilson fired at him, he started to turn where he ran and collapsed and died facing away from the truck. It looks like the direction of travel puts the two extremity shots first, firing upwards, followed by two to the chest, and ending with two to the head.

In theory, Wilson fires the first six shots to Browns right arm as it's curled in front of him. Wilson is right handed, Brown is left handed. Brown is either grabbing Wilson with his right arm, or defending with his right arm in front of him in this position. Either way, two grazing shots hit the thumb and right arm of Brown. Disengage after the first shots where Wilson either exits the vehicle or continues to fire from inside. Brown either disengaged, and is now running towards Wilson, or did not move away and the follow-up shots happen. Two to the chest as he's turning his body to the left to get away, exposing the right side of his body. He leans forward or drops after being hit in the chest, where two shots follow to his head on the right side. He then runs away (leaving his shoes well behind his body) where he collapses and dies.

At least that's what I gathered.

or with a special prosecutor who doesn't have obvious conflicts of interest.

What's this mean?

Nobody can look impartially at the evidence presented in defense of Darren Wilson and say it's credible, so the entire thing looks like a sham designed to lead to a no-indictment, not to the truth, whatever it is.

You can, because it's neither proving, nor is it disproving his testimony. We don't get to make that decision though, the Grand Jury does.

Also, who keeps selectively leaking information about the grand jury where evidence is supposed to be kept secret? The whole thing looks rotten and it's just going to piss people off.

Someone close to the investigation, so I'm thinking it's the police or someone on the Grand Jury. Either way, doesn't look good and can mistrial this.

[kuronosan]

Those leaks alone are grounds for a mistrial.

[Quicklet]

1. There's bruising on the right side of his hip.

I don't see any mention of bruising to the hip. Could you point me to where this is detailed?

2. The condition of Michael Brown's hands and arms are pretty detailed and supports that Michael Brown was attacking Wilson. Brown is left handed, with the majority of the damage concentrated on his left hand and forearm. I've seen a lot of pathology reports of deceased victim's with defensive wounds, and the way it looks like, Brown was literally beating the shit out of Wilson.

I also do not see where this is detailed in the report. I see mention of various small abrasions which could be consistent with any number of scenarios including scrapes from falling. The best evidence regarding any struggle would be medical evidence of Darren Wilson's injuries that I hope would have been taken in the aftermath. In the absence of such evidence I am skeptical of interpretations of the autopsy that are consistent with other explanations.

In theory, Wilson fires the first six shots to Browns right arm as it's curled in front of him. Wilson is right handed, Brown is left handed. Brown is either grabbing Wilson with his right arm, or defending with his right arm in front of him in this position. Either way, two grazing shots hit the thumb and right arm of Brown. Disengage after the first shots where Wilson either exits the vehicle or continues to fire from inside. Brown either disengaged, and is now running towards Wilson, or did not move away and the follow-up shots happen. Two to the chest as he's turning his body to the left to get away, exposing the right side of his body. He leans forward or drops after being hit in the chest, where two shots follow to his head on the right side. He then runs away (leaving his shoes well behind his body) where he collapses and dies.

None of the verifiable independent witness accounts that are publicly known are consistent with six shots being fired from within the car, so this seems implausible. In an ideal world where we have all the information available and not just selective information, we would have the ballistics available which should provide more details about the trajectories of the bullets that did not strike him. Trajectories of bullets that came from within the car should be different from those that were shot at him while away from the car.

Again, selectively releasing information that can be spun to support a narrative appears sketchy and only further damages belief in the process. A lot of people want the truth, not PR.

[Nephlite]

I don't see any mention of bruising to the hip. Could you point me to where this is detailed?

Page 6, Middle paragraph that outlines the injuries, in the middle of the paragraph, it says there's a pattern of abrasions on his right hip. If he was walking in the same direction as Wilson was traveling in the car, opening the door of the vehicle and hitting him (on the right side) would leave a similar pattern of injury. All of the injuries outlined are assumed to be pre-death unless otherwise specified.

I also do not see where this is detailed in the report. I see mention of various small abrasions which could be consistent with any number of scenarios including scrapes from falling. The best evidence regarding any struggle would be medical evidence of Darren Wilson's injuries that I hope would have been taken in the aftermath. In the absence of such evidence I am skeptical of interpretations of the autopsy that are consistent with other explanations.

It's in the same paragraph on Page 6. All of the injuries listed to the left hand are pre-death. Damages to the fingers, thumbs, knuckles, back of the hand (mentioned on page 1 as well), consistent with offensive strikes.

None of the verifiable independent witness accounts that are publicly known are consistent with six shots being fired from within the car, so this seems implausible. In an ideal world where we have all the information available and not just selective information, we would have the ballistics available which should provide more details about the trajectories of the bullets that did not strike him. Trajectories of bullets that came from within the car should be different from those that were shot at him while away from the car.

Again, selectively releasing information that can be spun to support a narrative appears sketchy and only further damages belief in the process. A lot of people want the truth, not PR.

I was taking in to account the audio from the guy making the sleazy phone call. 10 shots were fired in the audio. 6 in 1.8 seconds, 2 second pause, 4 in 1.4 seconds. I'm taking all the witness accounts in to play here, not just a few.

[Quicklet]

I looked at the parts you referenced, and nothing really strikes me as being conclusive as to the nature of the struggle. The supplemental examination of tissue from the right hand does mention some skin and skeletal muscle fragments as well as additional matter that's consistent with a gun discharge. Again, I think medical evidence of whatever injuries Darren Wilson sustained would be much more informative as to the severity of the struggle.

With regard to the audio, we don't know if the discharge inside the car happened before the recording started. You can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe the police have released the total number of shots fired, and we certainly don't have the ballistics report. According to that second link, Darren Wilson testified that he fired two shots from within the vehicle during the struggle. That would give us 2 shots from within the vehicle, some amount of time until the volley of 6 (presumably while Brown is fleeing), and then the pause and final 4 (presumably after Brown stopped).

By the way, according to that leaked testimony, Wilson said he did not suffer any broken bones, which directly contradicts what was leaked to the media earlier. The way the entire aftermath of the killing was mishandled by practically all police involved has not done them any favors in convincing people that *this time* they're being provided a full and accurate picture of what happened.

[Nephlite]

I looked at the parts you referenced, and nothing really strikes me as being conclusive as to the nature of the struggle. The supplemental examination of tissue from the right hand does mention some skin and skeletal muscle fragments as well as additional matter that's consistent with a gun discharge.

And this is my interpretation as someone who has experience with this type of thing and has studied it, unless you're an expert and offer a better description.

Also, the damaged part from the gun discharge is on the right hand, not the left.

By the way, according to that leaked testimony, Wilson said he did not suffer any broken bones, which directly contradicts what was leaked to the media earlier. The way the entire aftermath of the killing was mishandled by practically all police involved has not done them any favors in convincing people that *this time* they're being provided a full and accurate picture of what happened.

Well, we don't even know if the "testimony" is legit or not. Quite frankly, the coroners examination looks pretty legit, but I'm still skeptical of that.

Most of the information released was done by multiple people drawing their own conclusions, mostly the media. We can't even verify if half the information they "obtained" is real or not. You can't draw any conclusions as this isn't an official release, and last I checked, there's only ONE official release of information, and that was from the Ferguson Police Chief. The rest is skeptic conclusions, third party witnesses, and leaked info.

[Dantrag]

3. None of the bullet wounds have stipple or powder, which disproves a close proximity shot. Had to be at least five feet away to escape GSR, unless the majority of it ended up in the vehicle (which isn't impossible).

I heard on the radio this morning that his hand had stipple or powder(forget which) and that they confirmed two shots in the cruiser. But the shot in Browns hand indicated a close shot(18 inches or less distance).

[Nephlite]

Yeah, stipple won't form if it's very close, as the material needs time to clump and form. The shots on his right hand indicate there was material present consistent with that.

[archibaldcrane]

I don't think the broken facial bone thing was ever leaked, it was just something one blogger simply made up.

[tyven]

i liked the narrative a lot more when this honkey murdered a poor young boy in cold blood. gdi

[BadKarma]

Super surprised that the people in Ferguson are going to wind up all buttmad because they were wrong

[Salodin]

I feel like the trayvon thread went p.much exactly like this.

[kuronosan]

Except it was unequivocal that Zimmerman was at fault and he continues to demonstrate as such.

[notorious bum]

Pre-planned leaks and 3rd party sources that confirm DW's fill-in-the-blank report, yes, this case is exactly the same as Trayvon's.... Blood found on DW's gun, yet no fingerprints. New leaks coming straight from the GJ now saying DW claimed to have tried to pepper spray MB.

The only similarity between this and Trayvon is that the dead black guy is guilty and unable to testify for himself.

edit: also, I actually expected fingerprints to be found on the gun, but the fact that they haven't confirmed this makes DW's fantasy scenario even more BULLOCKS. It would mean that he probably had the upperhand the whole time and grabbed his gun out of pure rage.

[kuronosan]

At this point all we know is that they definitely attacked each other. We don't know the context.

[Melena]

Pre-planned leaks and 3rd party sources that confirm DW's fill-in-the-blank report, yes, this case is exactly the same as Trayvon's.... Blood found on DW's gun, yet no fingerprints. New leaks coming straight from the GJ now saying DW claimed to have tried to pepper spray MB.

The only similarity between this and Trayvon is that the dead black guy is guilty and unable to testify for himself.

edit: also, I actually expected fingerprints to be found on the gun, but the fact that they haven't confirmed this makes DW's fantasy scenario even more BULLOCKS. It would mean that he probably had the upperhand the whole time and grabbed his gun out of pure rage.

No fingerprints doesn't mean he didn't try to reach for the gun and only touched the holster. I know you are jizzing at the idea that this is a complete coverup from FPD on up to the FBI, but god damn man, you are single handedly going to make Reynolds go out of business at this rate.

[notorious bum]

Gets everyone trying to argue over preposterous details of what happened INSIDE DW's car, but absolutely zero explanation of why DW gunned-down an unarmed victim fleeing 100 feet away from that fuzzy confrontation that it began at.

[notorious bum]

No fingerprints doesn't mean he didn't try to reach for the gun and only touched the holster. I know you are jizzing at the idea that this is a complete coverup from FPD on up to the FBI, but god damn man, you are single handedly going to make Reynolds go out of business at this rate.

Actually, the story now states that MB grabbed his gun to point the barrel at DW's hip. What a perfectly logical story they are weaving.

[archibaldcrane]

I mean, at this point they have to have a reasonable estimate of the distance they were apart when the fatal shots were fired at least, right?