The Ferguson, Missouri thread

[Xno Kappa]

If you want to argue character witnesses are worthless have at it. My only point was that the t-shirt incident will have some sort of impact on the actual trial despite what some may think in this thread.

[BaneTheBrawler]

i think the problem is the way they're used. they should be used to gain leniency in sentencing or reduction to lesser charges. they should not be used to determine guilt. a character witness is literally an appeal to emotion. Emotions have no place in determining facts, which is how we should determine guilt. Emotion has its place in sentencing and whatnot; mercy in the interest of justice, etc. which is, i think, what blubb means when he says the whole process is fucked.

[NynJa]

except in this case, part of guilt is going to be based on defaming DW and making MB look to be a saint. People will being up DW's previous racial problems to try to discredit him as an honest impartial cop, and instead label him as someone who had a grudge against black people, all while making MB look like someone who would never do anything heinous to warrant such action

now, whether you approve or not, MB's family looks like a bunch of shady douchebags, trying to profit off his death.

IT LOOKS VERY VERY BAD
and it wont take much effort to discredit the Brown family name.


If DW's family was selling shirts saying "DW is innocent" or his picture in the 4 scene colored cascase titled "Freedom", you'd be all up on it saying he's a worthless sack of shit who deserves to fry for being incredibly disrespecful to MB. You cant deny that.

[Quicklet]

So, like having on-duty cops wearing armbands saying "I am Darren Wilson"?

The point is that it doesn't matter how bad it looks because it has no legal bearing on a criminal case. It doesn't matter whether you believe Mike Brown was a saint or troubled, or whether you believe Darren Wilson had a history of antagonizing black citizens and being on a police force that had to be disbanded due to racial bias or if he was a stand-up officer who was recently recognized for heroics. If the forensics and witness testimony support that Brown had already surrendered when the fatal volley was fired and that there was no more reasonable justification to use deadly force, then he's legally guilty. And if the forensics and witness testimony don't provide enough evidence of that, then he's legally not guilty.

Character stuff just doesn't matter here from a legal standpoint, and any good lawyer would ensure that something like this would never be allowed as evidence in a criminal court case because it would unfairly bias a jury and does not pertain to the legal, physical facts of an event that happened two months prior. Good people can have lapses in judgment and do illegal things, and bad people can still be the victims of crime.

[Nephlite]

Well, to be fair, Michael Brown was going to college (he had his whole life in front of him), enjoyed music, wanted to be part of a fraternity, was a sweet child, etc. What do we know of Darren Wilson? Nada, except he worked at another agency that allegedly committed a few acts of brutality and questionable practices and won an award for a good case. What else do we know? Married? Kids? Hobbies? College?

We don't know, because people have painted him out to be the bad guy. Is that not assassination of his character? Make Michael Brown look like a saint, and Wilson a monster. Dehumanize the monster so that he looks less of a man and the sympathy goes towards the sweet and innocent child.

Except, we know he was not, in fact, sweet and innocent, and that in itself threatens the defense of the Michael Brown ploy to use that "good kid" defense. You don't think it belongs in a trial, but the prosecution will use it. Don't think that they will? You haven't seen enough criminal proceedings where there defense tries to make their defendant look like a saint for more lenient jail time.

I'm speaking as if this is gonna move forward, hahaha. This case is over whether or not Brown's mom is a violent person or not. Darren Wilson will be found not-guilty in the eyes of the law. No one will care, cause he murdered an innocent child.

[NynJa]

So, like having on-duty cops wearing armbands saying "I am Darren Wilson"?

Are you aware of the difference between "selling for profit" and "selling for raising money":

Was someone looking to profit off selling that MB merch? From the article it sounds like yes, some of his family was looking to profit off his death, juding by how his mom is saying "You cant be selling that shit", and it wasnt going to be going to legal fees.

[notorious bum]

Hold onto your butts, the nightsticks are being lubed as we speak. Announcement most likely coming on Monday.

ShordeeDooWhop ‏@Nettaaaaaaaa
Today we launched http://noindictment.org to serve has a hub for information regarding post Grand Jury announcement. #Ferguson

Gov. Nixon's Warning Sounds A Lot Like Selma Nixon's recent press conference is reminiscent of statements made during the Civil Rights movement when government officials addressed protestors. This article has a helpful video clip that makes the link and also succinctly teases out the connection. http://www.vox.com/2014/11/12/720449...a-ferguson-mlk

Tef Poe Releases Protest Song "War Cry" Rapper and Protestor Tef Poe released a song entitled "War Cry" in which he offers stinging social commentary re: the protests and the decidedly racial overtures that police actions have taken since August 9th. http://www.theguardian.com/music/mus...oting-ferguson

[Nephlite]

The union is asking for volunteers to head that way this weekend. I dunno if I'm gonna go personally, but I'll be sure to share any video with you guys if they get any. Probably won't be until after the decision, though. OPSEC dictates the video gets screened first.

[notorious bum]

Livestreamer Rebelutionary Z gave an interview on Breaking the Set; talking about being targeted, followed, doxxed, and prepping for the announcement. He appears at 22:30

[Xno Kappa]

Some of my co-workers are stocking up on ammo and food supplies in case they get called in lol. I find it hilariously cautious, but I'm like one of two minorities in a 20~ agent field office two hours away from Ferguson.

[notorious bum]

Your boy Darren gets his close-up today on two videos: one showing him after killing MB, another from an unrelated case of him arresting someone for filming the police lol Big man has no visible damage from the MB struggle, sipping on some juice like nothing happened.

Darren Wilson Violates 1st Amendment “I’ll Lock Your Ass Up”- Arrests Man for Filming

#DarrenWilson after the #MikeBrown shooting (Police footage) Video➡️ http://youtu.be/mGc0kXrOcrI

Also, it appears that the police have switched the story once again, to DW responding to a robbery. Read the new police story crafted 98 days later here, coinciding with the release of tapes to their homegirl Christine Byers: http://m.stltoday.com/news/multimedi...ile_touch=true

update: More futile efforts to re-tell their narrative via tweets from STLPD:

@brandon120 @Awkward_Duck In tv. Transcripts: “We didn’t use rubber bullets,” Belmar said. “(If) they’re actually rubber bullets, they’ll kill you. We did use tear gas. We did use smoke. We did use pepper balls — different things such as that. We did use armored trucks. But you know what? We didn’t use those on peaceful protesters. We used that on unfortunate criminal activity that spun out of the protest.”

[6souls]

KKK is threatening protesters with violence should a protest take place. Protesters have "awakened a sleeping giant."

https://news.vice.com/article/kkk-mi...h-lethal-force

[Acevalefor]

Yeh...that will help. Let's all go out in our white robes representing racist white supremacy and make threats of violence against people in a city full of minorities struggling and in the midst of a modern day civil rights protest. All of which was precipitated by a minority being gunned down and police doing a wonderful job of inciting more violence and spouting misinformation and smears at every turn.

Nothing like throwing a flare on a gasoline-soaked barn full of hay.

[Nephlite]

Your boy Darren gets his close-up today on two videos: one showing him after killing MB, another from an unrelated case of him arresting someone for filming the police lol Big man has no visible damage from the MB struggle, sipping on some juice like nothing happened.

Darren Wilson Violates 1st Amendment “I’ll Lock Your Ass Up”- Arrests Man for Filming

#DarrenWilson after the #MikeBrown shooting (Police footage) Video➡️ http://youtu.be/mGc0kXrOcrI

Also, it appears that the police have switched the story once again, to DW responding to a robbery. Read the new police story crafted 98 days later here, coinciding with the release of tapes to their homegirl Christine Byers: http://m.stltoday.com/news/multimedi...ile_touch=true

update: More futile efforts to re-tell their narrative via tweets from STLPD:

You know, if they obtained the dispatch recordings and video tapes of the aftermath, it's really hard to fake and "craft" a new story. Dispatch recordings are timestamped, and hard to alter (if not, impossible). I don't see anything different from what they've been saying, and this is the first concrete thing to come out on the case in a while. The other stuff that came out about the timeline, the events, and statements from members of the departments were just preliminary and mostly pieced together information. None of this needs to be taken as fact until concrete info comes out. Why are you buying in to all of this conjecture and speculation like it's the absolute truth?

I'm thinking at this point, even if someone put irrefutable proof in your hands of Darren Wilson's innocence, you'd still believe he's guilty. This is why I'm strongly opposed to any release of information until the investigation and trial is over. Stops people from speculating information and fabricating these elaborate fantasies and "what if" scenarios. What would really set this entire thing off would be a video of the entire encounter that no one knows about that will be presented after the Grand Jury decision.

[notorious bum]

The only elaborate fantasy at this point is the one that exists on those blank pages of the incident report that was never filled out on the day that it happened. Also, nobody is claiming those dispatch recordings are fake, only the story about him responding to a robbery. The surveillance footage didn't contain timestamps, that's probably where you're reading conspiracy posts from probably.

I would like to think that you aren't also supporting the new narrative of tear gas, rubber bullets, and flash grenades only being used on "agitators" and criminals, flying in the face of mountains of evidence from both indy and mainstream media.

[Nephlite]

The only elaborate fantasy at this point is the one that exists on those blank pages of the incident report that was never filled out on the day that it happened.

I already explained what that "incident report" was (was not a report, was a Computer Aided Dispatch entry used for UCR stats). The incident report was never released, and speculation that it wasn't done and a Use of Force report wasn't done is just that: speculation. Police departments don't have to release certain information, especially if criminal charges are pending.

Also, nobody is claiming those dispatch recordings are fake, only the story about him responding to a robbery. The surveillance footage didn't contain timestamps, that's probably where you're reading conspiracy posts from probably.

Again, speculation. No one knows either way, and if it does, in fact, turn out to be the case that he recognized Brown and Johnson as an afterthought (as the dispatch recordings allude to), then you can stop that line of thinking. It's clear that he did not respond to the robbery, as he was going to an unconscious child call at the time if the timelines are accurate. He could have, however, heard the lookout of the robbery, and saw two individuals matching the description as an afterthought. It seems to be the case through the dispatch recordings, so it's not made up. Sorry.

I would like to think that you aren't also supporting the new narrative of tear gas, rubber bullets, and flash grenades only being used on "agitators" and criminals, flying in the face of mountains of evidence from both indy and mainstream media.

I support the idea the agitators were hiding in the crowd, which caused bystanders and those who were trying to be peaceful to get caught in the middle.

The reality is, you don't have time to pick and choose targets when people are actively threatening you from multiple angles. "Mountains of evidence", indeed. I saw people chucking and throwing things from the start at the police. All of the "planted agitators" talk is just speculation from the people who claim to be peaceful, yet are the same people who made a list of demands that included the police should let low level offenses like throwing water bottles at the police go. Unacceptable, and still an assault, and is still an offense that should be met with force and an arrest.

[Acevalefor]

Noted. Throwing a water bottle from a crowd gives license for the police to indiscriminately escalate, use force, and arrest anyone in the crowd. After all, they cannot pick their target, so they should just mow them all down. /inflammatory remark.

Really though, why are we rehashing this before we have good, verifiable reports and evidence to talk about? The release of the dispatch info and the narrative of the timeline doesn't tell us anything new except for the fact that Wilson was not actively involved in the search for robbery suspects when this happened.

[Nephlite]

Noted. Throwing a water bottle from a crowd gives license for the police to indiscriminately escalate, use force, and arrest anyone in the crowd. After all, they cannot pick their target, so they should just mow them all down. /inflammatory remark.

Really though, why are we rehashing this before we have good, verifiable reports and evidence to talk about? The release of the dispatch info and the narrative of the timeline doesn't tell us anything new except for the fact that Wilson was not actively involved in the search for robbery suspects when this happened.

Just about everything bum has posted had some type of inflammatory remark in it. Just in case you weren't paying attention. Which is why this is being rehashed because he's alluding to an undertone without any real concrete evidence of anything.

Additionally, throwing a projectile constitutes a less lethal response according to the police use of force continuum. It's an assault, and you're authorized to respond in kind with the appropriate amount of force to control the situation, which rubber bullets, pepper spray, Tasers, CS gas, all actually fall in a lower level of force on the continuum.

Then again, the police should just stand there and allow themselves to get pelted with rocks, bottles, molotovs, and get shot. You know, because that's what they get paid for.

[BaneTheBrawler]

the police are the aggressors. have been since day 1.

[Acevalefor]

It's an assault, and you're authorized to respond in kind with the appropriate amount of force to control the situation, which rubber bullets, pepper spray, Tasers, CS gas, all actually fall in a lower level of force on the continuum.

And you wonder why so many people have problems with police? This use of force idea when the police presence is what is causing the agitation in the first place is a terrible idea. I have a better idea; back the fuck off and let them protest and be heard. Stop with the heavy handed suppression. Try supporting the idea that people's civil rights are not up for negotiation at the business end of a gun or taser or pepper spray canister. Until there is illegal activity that needs to be dealt with (read; looting, vandalism, fights, etc.) there is no reason for the police to be involved with the protests at all. I'll say it again; If police presence is the cause of the violence, then the police are the agitators, not the protesters.

I don't give a fuck about any use of force continuum that encourages police officers to bring harm to citizens who are doing nothing wrong. I don't give a fuck if your use of force is authorized on a crowd of 200 people. You know damn well that the vast majority of the people in that crowd have done nothing illegal in any way and you know damn well using any sort of force on them is morally wrong. You can pick your targets and pull out the lawbreakers just like the cops do at Mardi Gras celebrations with drunken, rowdy crowds numbering in the tens of thousands. You can enforce the law without infringing on people's right to protest. You can keep the peace without riot shields, rubber bullets, tear gas, and noise cannons.