The Ferguson, Missouri thread

[Talint]

Obviously that one wouldn't stick from the get go, but I wish I could remember specifically what the other ones were. Or at the very least, when I google "What charges were bought against Darren Wilson" I'd get something other then what I get lol.

The grand jury had a lot of choices: it could have issued an indictment on one of four charges: first-degree murder, second-degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, or involuntary manslaughter.

But most of these weren't realistic options. All along, legal experts have said that it was unlikely that Wilson would be charged with first-degree murder. That would have required evidence that he maliciously set out to kill Brown. Second-degree murder charges were theoretically possible, but this choice was unlikely if jurors decided that Wilson feared for his life when he killed Brown.

If jurors concluded that Wilson was negligent when he shot Brown, they could have gone with a charge of voluntary or involuntary manslaughter. That was somewhat more likely.

http://www.vox.com/2014/11/24/717596...brown-ferguson

-edit-

It is worth noting, that the grand jury came back with a No True Bill, which means that Mike Brown is not a victim and that there was no wrong doing.

I honestly would have been surprised if anyone thought that, even with a criminal trial, that Wilson would ever be found guilty. The blue wall is thick between prosecutors and cops and all that, but most people err on the side of cops anyway; and as it turns out, especially when a black man is involved.

But giving up before it even gets to that point? That's a cynical low even for me.

[Nephlite]

A dude got 50k for potato salad. Kickstarter does what they want.

And he WILL get paid for that 20/20 interview he does a year from now. Guarantee it.

But keep trying to excuse every fucking thing about Darren Wilson. Holy shit.

https://www.kickstarter.com/rules

Projects can’t fundraise for charity, offer financial incentives, or involve prohibited items.

We’re all in favor of charity and investment, but they’re not permitted on Kickstarter. Projects can’t promise to donate funds raised to a charity or cause, and they can’t offer financial incentives like equity or repayment. We also can’t allow any of these prohibited things.

The second page of prohibited things they can't fund for:

Offering financial, money-processing, or credit services; financial intermediaries or cash-equivalent instruments; travel services (e.g., vacation packages); phone services (e.g., prepaid phone services, 900 numbers); and business marketing services.

So even donating to charity is out. Likely, they'll give it back to the donors.

The accounts that he was paid for his interview is just speculation. There's nothing to support this. Allegedly, a supporter released a statement that she raised a million dollars for Wilson, but both of those are tied to Kickstarter and Go-Fund accounts, both of which have rules outlined above.

Neph knows all. He knows that I know that I didn't read those transcripts, only took the word of amateur attorneys and commentators.

Also, you will probably need to consult the neocon networks like the Blaze for just how many witness accounts are considered completely false or contradictory. Please refrain from searching those sites for the erroneous accounts of DW's testimony or the prosecutions many blunders.

I read the entire indictment, including the summary and the forensic analysis of the physical evidence, and the FBI interviews that disproved the theory and witness testimony that 1) Michael Brown was kneeling or surrendering with his hands in the air 2) Wilson pulled Michael Brown in to the vehicle during the initial confrontation 3) Wilson fired at Brown while he was running away and 4) Wilson fired at Brown from 100 feet away.

The thing you have to realize when considering a response to this, is you have to look at EVERYTHING, and not cherry pick information and jump on specifics. Take in to account the crime scene notes, the video and audio recordings, the witness testimony from both those saying Brown was murdered, and those supporting Wilson's testimony, and the inconsistencies in both Wilson and the other witnesses statements that contradict the forensics.

And yes, Wilson's testimony had inconsistencies, but were not ruled to be hearsay or contradictory to the forensics. That's the point I'm trying to make, and I already said that witness statements can be unreliable. I never said his testimony was 100% accurate, but it matches the forensics.

I'm sorry, you keep saying this, but you have yet to point out where in the transcripts the justification/evidence for this claim is. Are you referring to, for example, the witness who claimed he saw Michael Brown charging who initially reported to police he was "100 yards, maybe less" away from the encounter who then later testified that he was only "50 to 75 yards away"? Should we discount that testimony because he clearly changed some of the details from his initial account to his final testimony?

It's perplexing to me how people will take authority to be infallible when there are still plenty of unresolved, relevant questions to be asked.

I should rephrase to the witness statements that claimed Wilson fired at Brown while he was running, while he was surrendering, and while his hands were up were disproven, and not all of them. Some witness statements inadvertently supported Wilson's version. Proximity and distance inconsistencies can vary from witness to witness, which is another issue with reliability of witnesses.

Notice how on Bum's little chart, there's a ton of missing witnesses? A lot of those were the ones ruled out, including Witness 1, which should be Dorian Johnson.

Precisely. He has spouted this opinion, which originates from the mainly conservative sources, so many times, yet it holds about as much weight as DW's life-threatening injury fantasy.

Also, I forgot to note on another thing Neph has brought up again, that this wasn't an actual criminal trial and that double jeopardy doesn't apply here. A special prosecutor can pick this case right up and take it to trial.

Conservative sources, or exactly what the prosecutor said from the beginning that the testimonies that were found to be inconsistent were readily identified? C'mon man. Give me more credit.

And yes, you're right. He can be tried again.

Can someone quote where "forensics proved he didn't have his hands up"?

The pathways of the final bullets as detailed in the autopsies concluded his hands weren't up in the air. The first shot between his mid-line and left arm indicates his arms were down at his sides. It's true, he could have had both hands forward, but if they were outstretched, up in the air, the path of the graze shot would have been different. It hit the front of the arm near the bicep, along the inside of the bicep and back towards the triceps.

What would they charge him with if they took him to trial? Is a civil suit, which he will more then likely lose, not enough for people? I don't think he's "innocent" per say, but I don't feel he's guilty of premeditated murder, which is a stipulation for most if not all the charges they were looking to indict him of.

Charges were:

1st Degree Murder
2nd Degree Murder
Voluntary Manslaughter
Involuntary Manslaughter

I'm combing through all the testimony and the evidence/GJ evidence. Will formulate a much larger post later. Stay tuned!

[kuronosan]

Um. Along the inside of the bicep toward the distal side of the tricep doesn't necessarily mean his arms weren't up. One shot could have shocked him enough to drop his arms.

[Nephlite]

Um. Along the inside of the bicep toward the distal side of the tricep doesn't necessarily mean his arms weren't up. One shot could have shocked him enough to drop his arms.

You're right.



The very first shot undisputed was the thumb (6) as that had stippling in it from a close range shot. The DNA found in the SUV, the skin tags on the gun from Brown, and the witnesses saying the first shot was in the car supported this. I'm under the impression (5) may have been a hit as well from in the car, but in my theory, it could go either way.

The next shot (5) is contentious, but the way the examination report reads, and the way that people have explained it to me and the way I have learned, it appears this is the second shot based upon how the human body works when firing a gun for the first time or during an intense SNS activation. You're going to fire either down and dominant (Wilson is right handed), or down and support (also depending on your stance).

The medical examiners all examined the wounds for "sharking" or cuts in the skin along the edges of the wounds to show the direction of the bullet, which was inconclusive. However, if Brown had his hands over his head as suggested by Johnson, Wilson's muzzle climb would have carried the bullets over his head, which is possible if he hit with the first 6. Given Wilson's testimony, Brown "jerked" after his first shots, indicating a hit. So I'm under the impression (5) was the first, as shooting under those conditions usually is down and to a side.

If Wilson fired in rapid succession as the audio suggest, the muzzle climb of the gun would have carried the path upwards, and as Wilson corrected the path of the shots to center-mass.

So 6 initial shots after Brown stops and faces Wilson and charges, 5 missed and 1 hit from the first volley (5). Brown pauses, then runs again, the muzzle climbing with the shots to strike (4) when Wilson goes to sight on center mass. The muzzle climbs, hitting (3), then (2) and as Brown starts to fall, (1) and he died. This is also consistent with the person talking with someone on the side of the road being unintentionally audio recorded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdL9d...ctr=1417511824 (Starts at 6:20)

Transcript:

#1 How’d he get from there to there?
#2 Because he ran, the police was still in the truck – cause he was like over the truck
{crosstalk}
#2 But him and the police was both in the truck, then he ran – the police got out and ran after him
{crosstalk}
#2 Then the next thing I know he doubled back toward him cus - the police had his gun drawn already on him –
#1. Oh, the police got his gun
#2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him
{crosstalk}
#2 Police fired shots – the next thing I know – the police was missing
#1 The Police?
#2 The Police shot him
#1 Police?
#2 The next thing I know … I’m thinking … the dude started running … (garbled something about “he took it from him”)

That's my take on it at least.

[notorious bum]

That sprinter diagram is fucking hilarious. Thanks for the laugh this morning.

In other news: Ferguson protestors met with Obama for some piecemeal rhetoric and do-nothing policy of arming 50k police with cameras, "monitoring" of the 1033 police militarization program. I guess the last 110~ days of demonstrations and indiscriminate usage of their cool toys around the nation wasn't picked-up by the administration. Eric Holder was also preaching some hollow words at a church in ATL, protestors interrupt him when he started going on about protestors+burning+looting.

Lastly, another conservative talking point was laid to rest today. Deandre Joshua, who was shot + set on fire during Ferguson protests last week, was NOT a grand jury witness: http://nyti.ms/1rPoRYC

[Waraji]

...where her son and his identical twin brother, Dont’A (Don-TAY)...

[Nephlite]

That sprinter diagram is fucking hilarious. Thanks for the laugh this morning.

In other news: Ferguson protestors met with Obama for some piecemeal rhetoric and do-nothing policy of arming 50k police with cameras, "monitoring" of the 1033 police militarization program. I guess the last 110~ days of demonstrations and indiscriminate usage of their cool toys around the nation wasn't picked-up by the administration. Eric Holder was also preaching some hollow words at a church in ATL, protestors interrupt him when he started going on about protestors+burning+looting.

Lastly, another conservative talking point was laid to rest today. Deandre Joshua, who was shot + set on fire during Ferguson protests last week, was NOT a grand jury witness: http://nyti.ms/1rPoRYC

Government won't budge on 1033. As long as America is the most hated country in the world, they'll keep the enforcement as close to military as possible for a domestic land invasion. Anyone in the military remember personnel goals and strategic planning in basic?!

[wipers]

Obama didn't solved this yet well bring in The Hardy Boys. They will find out what really happened.

[Cream Soda]

[notorious bum]

lol nice to see an old go-to photo used to discredit protestors. Saw someone mention that the old MB "gang-banger" photo (you know, the one that isn't actually MB) was making rounds again, too. So, uhh... congrats?

[Xno Kappa]

Clearly Cream Soda is a racist asshole against blacks.

[Waraji]

I'll take Cream Soda's racism over Wipers grammar. I mean holy shit look at this mess:

Obama didn't solved this yet well bring in The Hardy Boys. They will find out what really happened.

[Ksandra]

He did make half a million dollars because of racists in kick starter.

Plus whatever he gets for his tv interviews

I didn't say he didn't make any money, I said the money he makes probably won't cover his loses from lawyer fees, civil suits, paying bills from being out of work, etc.

People in this high profile cases never end up becoming net profit millionaires. OJ, Anthony, Zimmerman, etc. While not in prison, they aren't living the sweet life.

Again, I think DW is a shit stick, so it is deserved, just saying I am not all concerned about any money he is getting outside of that he's probably getting a lot of it from racist bigots.

[Salodin]

Cream's racism is obviously overlooked not because he's black but because he doesn't vote.

[notorious bum]

Time and time again, the same posters in here discussing everything in absolutes and buzzwords. How the hell do you extrapolate me calling homie a racist from my post? What, he can't be called out for posting an old ass image making the rounds on Fedbook, which has been used and abused by pro-DW propagandists, as with the false MB pic that I mentioned?

Please refrain from shitting up the thread. Thanks.

[Sho]

Time and time again, the same posters in here discussing everything in absolutes and buzzwords. How the hell do you extrapolate me calling homie a racist from my post? What, he can't be called out for posting an old ass image making the rounds on Fedbook, which has been used and abused by pro-DW propagandists, as with the false MB pic that I mentioned?

Please refrain from shitting up the thread. Thanks.

Simple, take no one serious who speaks in absolutes. They are unable to think outside of the box and escape group mentality rhetoric.

[Eurell]

Simple, take no one serious who speaks in absolutes. They are unable to think outside of the box and escape group mentality rhetoric.

Isn't this an absolute?

[Sho]

Isn't this an absolute?

It's only absolute when you deal with only people who thinks in absolutes. You change your mindset around people who can see the grand picture, which is far and few in-between these days.

Why should you waste time with people who have a one track mind in any argument? There's a reason why I can hold multiple paragraph long arguments with Neph, a police officer who sides with DW, and ignore most of everyone else.

[Xno Kappa]

and ignore most of everyone else.

Funny you say that in this thread, where key posters hand pick bits of information that fit their narrative.

[Melena]

Remember, it's only posting in absolutes and shitting up threads if you go against the popular opinion.