The Ferguson, Missouri thread

[Dantrag]

Appreciate the colorblind explanation, Khajit, it really does apply to this whole recent social media hashtag fuck-up. In response to what was being discussed earlier about the disruption of commerce and inconveniencing folks while protesting, this just happened:

Walmart CEO Doug McMillon: We'll Do Away With Minimum Wage Pay In New Year
http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoco...y-in-new-year/

We'll keep it to a $.25 more than minimum wage! Still not livable and we'll keep most our people part time so we don't have to pay for their insurance! :D

[NynJa]

If it's selfish or if I have shitty priorities because I want to get to work so I can pay my rent or buy food then I guess I'm selfish.

You need to feel their oppression though, you need to know what its like to not have money for food or rent.

[Dantrag]

I'm sorry. If you're pissed off that your commute to work was delayed because of protests, then you were never on the side of the protesters to begin with.

It's really that simple, and really NOT an example of extremism. Either you have empathy, or you don't.

And, as I said earlier:

Violent protests is apparently a no-no.

But so are peaceful protests, because that might inconvenience others.

Guess the only way left to protest is through hashtag slacktivism.

You can have empaty for them and still want to get to where you're going without being stuck in 2 hours of traffic for no reason other than them wanting to block the interstate because they think that'll get you on their side...

[notorious bum]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/11/politi...ess/index.html

The Congressional Asian Pacific American Staff Association and the Congressional Hispanic Staff Association joined black staffers and the Congressional Black Associates in planning the event, which is set to take place at 3:30 p.m., and is expected to draw at least 50 people.

[NynJa]

If some protesters fucked me out of 30-50$ of wage because "They need to send a message by blocking traffic", they can get fucked.

And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one with this sentiment.

[Talint]

You can have empaty for them and still want to get to where you're going without being stuck in 2 hours of traffic for no reason other than them wanting to block the interstate because they think that'll get you on their side...

"I empathize and want change like the rest of you, but not enough so that I am inconvenienced." As if though demanding change doesn't bring about inconvenience.

That is not empathy to me.

And to paint is as extremism is intellectually dishonest at best, disguised disaccreditation at worst.

[Xajii]

"I empathize and want change like the rest of you, but not enough so that I am inconvenienced." As if though demanding change doesn't bring about inconvenience.

That is not empathy to me.

And to paint is as extremism is intellectually dishonest at best, disguised disaccreditation at worst.

you act like fucking people out of their daily wages has any direct influence on anything and changes anyone's mind at all. it doesn't. it only angers people.

this is just more alienating us vs them bullshit to the extreme. i fuckin hate that mentality. "i have to GET UP IN EVERYONES FACE AND FUCK UP THEIR DAY EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THIS because thats how change happens!" no. no it is not.

[takeDat]

Protests in the form of marches have always been a standard form of getting your point across. Yes it is inconvenient no matter where it happens. But it gets attention, which is what this movement needs.

I wonder, for the guys here who are upset by the peaceful means of protest being used, what course of action would you choose?

[tyven]

Protests in the form of marches have always been a standard form of getting your point across. Yes it is inconvenient no matter where it happens. But it gets attention, which is what this movement needs.

I wonder, for the guys here who are upset by the peaceful means of protest being used, what course of action would you choose?

they'd write a bunch of letters to advertisers because the only type of change the people on this board want to see is to how they are treated by video game publications.

after that they'd prob raise a bunch of money for darren wilson and Daniel Pantaleo because these blax are just SJWs that need to get a clue.

[kuronosan]

Are you people fucking serious?

Tell me how I help things by being unemployed, having no place to live, and no roof over my family's head because I got fired for walking out of a HEALTH CARE job?

That's right. Living paycheck to paycheck only matters if you are black, which is exactly what message you're sending when you say dumb shit like that.

The problem with this attitude is that you're forgetting that IT'S NOT HOW HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY WORKS. You don't change stuff by making someone's life a living hell without explaining why or by calling them unsympathetic cowards. They have bills to pay. They're humans too. Your entire movement loses all fucking meaning the minute you act as though NO other lives matter except these ones right here - right now.

The very people you want on your side are NOT the people causing these problems. They're in the same boat, trying to get by while simultaneously wondering how they can help steer things forward. Marching helps. Peaceful protests help. Blocking a busy interstate when people are trying to earn a living does NOT help.

[Melena]

So side story to the berkley protesters blocking the freeway. Lady was inbound to a hospital as she went and labor and was stuck in that mess. EMS had to send a fire truck driving opposite direction to pick her up and drive her to a waiting ambulance to get her to the hospital. 4 hours later, gave birth.

[Xajii]

Protests in the form of marches have always been a standard form of getting your point across. Yes it is inconvenient no matter where it happens. But it gets attention, which is what this movement needs.

I wonder, for the guys here who are upset by the peaceful means of protest being used, what course of action would you choose?

To clarify, I support protests, just not ones in the middle of a fuckin interstate. Protest at Capitol Hill, at your local courts, at your LEO agencies, whatever. There's a grey area here, and there's a difference between protests that make sense and have messages and protests whose only cohesive effort is to piss people off in the hopes that it will somehow make them see the light.

If you want a serious answer apart from "other protests" I'd say I'd look into formal activity to try and replace officials that aren't doing the right htings in key offices starting from the lowest levels and moving on up.

[RKenshin]

I'm sorry. If you're pissed off that your commute to work was delayed because of protests, then you were never on the side of the protesters to begin with.

It's really that simple, and really NOT an example of extremism. Either you have empathy, or you don't.

What the hell kind of false equivalency is this? 'Don't like sitting in hours of traffic for nothing and/or risking your job/education/income? Then you hate black people.'

And I'm not talking about protests around a city building/place of relevance causing traffic, I'm talking about people literally walking out onto an interstate highway that has no relevance or proximity at all to any aspect of the protest - and purposefully stopping cars from being able to get by.

Most people can at least respect the first situation - you have to protest somewhere, and if that somewhere means a city hall or a place where the event occurred or a police station or a college campus among a lot of supporters, then fine. And if that means the immediate area of that location has heightened traffic, then fine. Most people can understand and sympathize with that cost (myself included), even if it is annoying/causes delays or other issues.

But, going out of your way to block an unrelated and major bottleneck of the interstate highway just because 'you can' is crossing the line of understanding/empathy. In the case of Providence in particular, there literally is no other way to get across the city easily... so you're preventing people completely from getting anywhere.

Seriously, what are the limits of this path in logic? Do everything/anything as long as it gains attention, and those that end up victimized by it and then upset are racists/don't care? Where do you draw the line? Can we expect to see protestors gather at a city's water treatment plant and have a "shit-in" to destroy the water supply just so they can grab the headline and get more attention? And then call anyone upset with their shit water a racist that just doesn't have empathy?

[kareface]

I agree with the statement if being inconvenienced was enough to change your mind about the protests then it's unlikely you gave enough shits about the cause to begin with to matter. I live in Berkeley, I had to change my plans when the freeway was shutdown, I live a block away from the trader joes that was attacked, many buildings on campus were vandalized, and the last week I've been "inconvenienced" every evening because of the chaos and the protests. I still support the protests.

The violent protesters are in the minority, and don't have anything to do with the actual movement. I don't care if I get stuck in traffic for hours or miss something important because I'm not participating in the protests. I'm stilling at home preping for my finals and finishing the last HW sets for the semester. If I disagree with the methods of peaceful protesting they decided to employ then I should get involved and try and affect change instead of sitting at home bitching from the safety of my bedroom. They are out there fighting for something that everyone agrees needs to be addressed.

We can criticize all we want, it's far too easy to do while watching it unfold on the news or outside the windows of our cars as we drive by. It seems a bit cynical when people who haven't lifted a finger to make a difference bitch and moan about the actions of the people on the front lines when the worst outcomes from their decisions has been to inconvenience people. The property damage and violence has been almost entirely at the hands of the anarchists (at least in Berkeley). If it continues I could miss a final, miss a paying job, hell, maybe even have my car or house vandalized, but looking at the big picture those are fairly petty complaints. As long as the protesters do their best to keep it peaceful I'll support their cause, and once finals is over maybe I can even influence it.

[Tyrath]

Are you people fucking serious?

Tell me how I help things by being unemployed, having no place to live, and no roof over my family's head because I got fired for walking out of a HEALTH CARE job?

That's right. Living paycheck to paycheck only matters if you are black, which is exactly what message you're sending when you say dumb shit like that.

The problem with this attitude is that you're forgetting that IT'S NOT HOW HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY WORKS. You don't change stuff by making someone's life a living hell without explaining why or by calling them unsympathetic cowards. They have bills to pay. They're humans too. Your entire movement loses all fucking meaning the minute you act as though NO other lives matter except these ones right here - right now.

The very people you want on your side are NOT the people causing these problems. They're in the same boat, trying to get by while simultaneously wondering how they can help steer things forward. Marching helps. Peaceful protests help. Blocking a busy interstate when people are trying to earn a living does NOT help.

Is this the same Kuronosan who a few pages back was telling me to empathize with the feelings of the protesters when I said violent protesting was not okay?

I don't think it's okay, I'm disgusted by it.

That doesn't mean I don't think it's necessary. While violence is something I'm against, given the conditions of some places in the world do you really think a peaceful protest is going to win out?

You need to empathize. The actions aren't designed to show who is better or who is not. They're an emotional response to a perceived injustice. It's not a matter of vengeance. It's no different than a toddler trashing his toys because his brother took them away.

Only this is a toddler with no toys, clothes, or big house, and somehow his toys were still taken away.

Guess their feelings stop mattering when they start to affect your daily commute.

[kuronosan]

And that's what your problem is, dude. Us/Them until the end. I can empathize with real protestors, understand their position, support their cause, and STILL be pissed that I somehow don't meet the criteria of a supporter because I don't hashtag #blacklivesmatter and walk out on my job.

Guess intelligence doesn't matter when it starts to affect your judgment.

[Priran]

Here's a demonstration I could get behind.

Around 500 people are to simulate sex at Old Palace Yard in Westminster on Friday, as MPs debate the recent changes to UK pornography regulations and the effective banning of certain sex acts the government deems morally damaging.

...

#PornProtest will attempt to break the Guinness World Record for 'face-sitting' (an act that could face censorship) and hold a 'Sex Factor' game show, both using fully-clothed participants.

...

[Charlotte] Rose joked on the Facebook page for the protest that there will be "facial colour charts for health and safety to ensure no one is being suffocated" by face-sitting, monitored by adjudicators.

[Tyrath]

And that's what your problem is, dude. Us/Them until the end.

Considering I don't fit your neat little dynamic of white vs black, us vs them, etc, no I haven't pushed that idea at all. All I did was question the methods.

I can empathize with real protestors, understand their position, support their cause, and STILL be pissed that I somehow don't meet the criteria of a supporter because I don't hashtag #blacklivesmatter and walk out on my job.

Guess intelligence doesn't matter when it starts to affect your judgment.

So when I question the method of protests I need to learn to empathize, but because it affects your life you can empathize and still be pissed? Got it bro.

[kuronosan]

Are you that dense?

[Tyrath]

Don't have an answer for your hypocrisy so ad hominems will do I guess.