The Ferguson, Missouri thread

[notorious bum]

I'm not drawing any conclusions either way, all I'm saying is the video evidence is worthless. He didn't appear to be going for suicide-by-cop, he didn't look like he just robbed a store a gun point, and we can't see what happens after the pointing. It's garbage.

[Dimmauk]

Except for the fact you can clearly see the guy point something held in his hand at the cop. It sure as shit didn't look like he was trying to shake his hand.

I wonder if it was his wallet? Maybe a gun shaped wallet?

I agree, you cant see shit in that video

[Melena]

Since when has any news agency released the video of the guy getting shot. Where the video ends is when the shooting took place. And you already are drawing conclusions based on what you are seeing on twitter and your own assumptions as to how the guy would react. I mean you say no guy would pull a gun on a guy in uniform when the shit just happened a week ago in new york.

[notorious bum]

And not use the gun? That's why I'm thinking there's more to this story. Anyways, there's plenty of twitter claims saying he didn't have a gun and it was planted. I'm not going off the wheel on this, just pissed at the similarities in this story with others on how the cops treat black lives.

[Xno Kappa]

Authorities stated the 18-year old pointed a handgun at the scene. A handgun at the scene was indeed recovered. Video seems to confirm something was pointed at the police.

Unless you're going to argue police keep a spare 9mm in their vehicle for plant purposes, quack quack.

[notorious bum]

Did I say I co-sign any "no gun" theories? nah

[Xno Kappa]

My post was in general and not directed at anyone.

[Aksannyi]

That doesn't abdicate the police's responsibility to administer first aid and save his life after he was no longer an immediate threat, assuming he really did bleed out for a half hour and EMS was not called.

This is where my outrage lies, and only with this until there is more to know about this. I'm not going to tinfoil hat my way into planted gun theories, but leaving people to lie on the pavement after having been shot by the cops is pretty fucking irresponsible and seems to be a pattern with all of these deaths. What exactly is the reasoning behind refusing medical assistance to people? This is a big deal. These people don't have to die.

[notorious bum]

My internet is shit, but there are more angles being released atm

[Krandor]

You are vastly underestimating how stupid some people are. Antonio could have simply been in the middle of a nigga moment and decided that pointing his gun at a cop was the best action available to him.

[Charismatic]

a, not er.
Don't get lit up, my dude. Q_Q

[Xno Kappa]

In case someone someway somehow has no idea what Krandor is talking about.

[Krandor]

a, not er.
Don't get lit up, my dude. Q_Q

I know the difference bro.

And thanks for linking the video.

[Zeb]

Are police who administer first aid on people who need it protected by the Good Samaritan Law?

[BaneTheBrawler]

I know the difference bro.

And thanks for linking the video.

I edited your post. Reference was good, don't want you catching heat over it. As I understand it, we're supposed to take that word seriously.

[Nephlite]

This is where my outrage lies, and only with this until there is more to know about this. I'm not going to tinfoil hat my way into planted gun theories, but leaving people to lie on the pavement after having been shot by the cops is pretty fucking irresponsible and seems to be a pattern with all of these deaths. What exactly is the reasoning behind refusing medical assistance to people? This is a big deal. These people don't have to die.

Most cops don't stock portable field hospitals in their cruisers. There's (literally) nothing you can do except what you're trained to do and roll them in to the recovery position and monitor their airway. You can attempt to apply pressure to the wounds, but without intervention, the person will likely die anyways.

Best thing to do is wait for EMS to get there. You still have to worry about other factors, especially if you're there by yourself. You just can't shoot someone and start working on them, lest you get mobbed. With the way things have been lately, the last thing I'd do in that area would be to put myself at a disadvantage with so many agitators around.

Are police who administer first aid on people who need it protected by the Good Samaritan Law?

Depends on the state or jurisdiction, but generally no. If you caused the injury and rendered aid, and subsequently hurt that person or the techniques you used were insufficient, then you can still be liable. That's one reason why most cops only receive basic CPR and First Aid. The chances for incurring liability are lower.

[wipers]

If there was only a holiday that would provide a good distraction so people don't care about this story...

Gather round the Christmas tree boys and girls I'll tell ya a story of racist cops in Missouri !

[Nephlite]

Happy Holidays. Not trying to start a fight or anything, but I asked this question on reddit and didn't get a good answer, so maybe someone can answer for me.

In response to my last response to Aksannyi, I want to know what the expectation people have when a police officer shoots someone in terms of rendering aid?

I'll post a scenario here for my departments protocols. For the purposes of OPSEC, don't construe any of this to be a real event.

I just shot a suspect. I have just hit the target somewhere on their body anywhere from 1-17 times. Let's say I scored two hits center mass, as dictated by firing protocol of two to the chest and reassess methodology that seems to be the argument for many OIS when people armchair shooting an entire magazine at a subject.

Two things need to happen immediately after the suspect is down: I need to secure the subject, then I need to secure the weapon. I need to do this when it is safe to do so. I also need to: watch out for accomplices, take in to consideration scene safety (heavily flowing traffic, foot traffic, agitators), assess injuries, call for backup, continue to fire at the subject if he's not down or he continues to be a threat (hands!!!), Tactical L (seriously???), and all the while I have to control myself by doing my breathing exercises, stop the shakes by clearing my fields, keep my feet moving, shout directions, prevent a PNS backlash by bringing my heart rate down slowly, assess myself for injuries, render aid to myself, and most importantly: call for backup in a legible manner.

So I have my subject cuffed, the weapon is secured, and my backup is on the way. I have assessed injuries to bystanders (no one's shot or dying off the backstop), my subject is conscious and breathing, I have cleared the alley (ensured no one is hiding waiting to pop a cap in me). What's next? Secure the scene so you can get EMS out. How do we secure the scene? More Officers. The average response time is 8 minutes in my city, so I have to wait at least that long for a second officer.

I have done my departmental protocol and rolled the subject in to the recovery position to clear his airway. My rapid trauma assessment has told me two things: he has two bullet wounds, an in and out to the upper torso left, with a second two inches up and left, no exit. By the sounds of his breathing (agonal) and from training and experience, I have at least hit his lungs.

In the trunk of my cruiser, I have: jumper cables, spare flashlight, an AR-15, flares, a medical kit, an AED, and a fire extinguisher. The med kit has gauze, some bandaids, sani-wipes, and a face shield. The AED is an AED. He's got a pulse, so that's useless. I have one roll of gauze that I stuff in to the biggest wound and apply pressure to his chest.

It took my second officer 2 minutes to get there, and subsequently, a hundred more showed up. There's a crowd forming. The scene is taped off, a supervisor was notified, EMS was notified, and we began staging operations for Crime Scene, IA to be notified, and detectives were called to start the criminal investigation against me. I have been working on my subject for four minutes before the scene is secured and EMS is called. Someone takes over and tries to do what they can with more gauze and pressure on the wounds.

12 minutes after the shooting, EMS arrives. It takes approximately 30 seconds to go unconscious from blood loss, so my subject is unconscious but still breathing (he lasted about 6 minutes). There's inadequate oxygen reaching his brain because of his punctured lung, so bodily functions are starting to shut down. The subject is dying, but I can't do anything for him. EMS bags him and starts basic CPR. They load him in the bus and they're off in a flash. By the time they get to the hospital, his heart has shut down because his brain died from lack of oxygen, and he dies.

Sorry for the wall. Just wanted to give a bit of perspective. Human bodies are pretty fragile, but medicine has only advanced so far. Anyone will tell you Emergency On-Site Aid is just about preserving the life of the patient, but it has it's limits.

[kuronosan]

I would have taken the gauze and plugged the wound, applying pressure. That would have kept his circulation going at the very least.

[Acevalefor]

Your textbook response is the right thing to do. You attempted to give the subject aid while also doing everything your protocols dictate.

Regarding the gas station shooting; leaving the subject on the ground, untouched for 30+ minutes (not that I believe this happened. I am going on "witness" tweets and hearsay) is well beyond reasonable and has ventured a long way into negligence. If aid was not given when it was safe to do so and you were capable of giving aid, that is certainly a factor that needs to be examined.