The Ferguson, Missouri thread

[Sho]

You're almost seem to be taking this all personally x.x;

I know it didn't play out like a movie, still feel getting shot twice would bring someone down or slow them down. Not saying lighting the fucker up afterwards was the right course of action, was only inquiring.

I do take it personally, and I'm angry at both sides, trust me. It's just stupid all around. Most of the people looting in Ferguson don't even live there, they are just niggas who went there to cause havoc under the guise of protest, something that is just as bad as this young black man being killed. It casts a negative light on all black people in America, because there are people who live in America who are dumb as fuck and will apply the "Nigga Mentality" to every black person across the board because of this. Police aren't handling this well because they not only did they successfully assassinate the character of Brown, but they are withholding and botching their own police reports instead of providing a transparent story recounting the events. The governor of MO is being a complete retard, and the President and Vice President are no where to be found at this critical time.

It's a shit situation that makes me all the more sad for this country and it's people.

[Xno Kappa]

The autopsy should've been done by now with a report identifying whether or not he was shot in the back. Any deaths involving gunshot wounds usually are given priority with ME's.

[Nephlite]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...loody-lie.html

Schottel got another unpleasant surprise when he sought the use-of-force history of the officers involved. He learned that before a new chief took over in 2010 the department had a surprising protocol for non-fatal use-of-force reports.

“The officer himself could complete it and give it to the supervisor for his approval,” the prior chief, Thomas Moonier, testified in a deposition. “I would read it. It would be placed in my out basket, and my secretary would probably take it and put it with the case file.”

This is pretty much standard practice. Officer writes the UOF report where it is reviewed by the acting official to match the incident report. Not sure why this is surprising.

Because the way you are arranging the story is fucking retarded. Like I said before, the first two shots can be justified in court. Lets say he DID go after the gun the first time. A shot went off in the cruiser, and he then Brown proceeded to flee. Brown was shot in the back. He then stops and in compliance to surrender. He is then shot twice more and is killed. There's about 5 different recounts of the event, all that match up exactly the same from different vantage points. You cannot justify him being shot after surrendering, the man was RUNNING FOR HIS GOD DAMN LIFE before this, and then he surrendered WITH HIS HANDS UP after being hit in the back. There was no second charging for a gun or even to attack a police officer who now has his gun drawn.

Not everyone is in cahoots to protect a black mans honor or even about being bias. And the police are giving out tons of halfassed and conflicting reports of their own. By one report, they didn't even know Brown was accused of robbery just 10 minutes earlier, which doesn't help their case at all.

It's been established that the officer did not know that Brown was involved in a robbery. The officer stopped him for walking in the street. The release of the report of the robbery establishes a possible desperation motive for Brown, as his perception might have been the officer is stopping him due to the alleged robbery. The defense for Wilson is going to use that to back Wilson's story.

Out of curiosity, can someone explain to me how is a man able to get shot twice and still be standing, and standing long enough to turn around and throw his hands up in surrender? I figured being shot once, let alone twice, is enough to bring anyone at least down, maybe not kill them, but I can't imagine them having the energy to stand.

Never being shot I am confused on the subject, but i was to understand its not a fun experience, and being shot twice...

If you don't hit any vital organs, you can live getting shot. I've seen people take 4-5 shots to the chest or a shot to the head and still be functioning enough to walk, talk, and carry on conversations. The ones that get you: stomach, lungs, heart. The brain is a large organ and penetration to it doesn't necessarily mean death.

Also depends on how big you are, your body can absorb a lot of punishment. One witness says his body jerked a few times after getting hit. That's a pretty normal flinch of the central nervous system. It's not the pain, but the anticipation of the pain and the impact that causes it. Most of the time, you aren't even aware that you've been shot.

[Karbuncle]

Edit: Meh, nevermind, too much

[Quicklet]

This is pretty much standard practice. Officer writes the UOF report where it is reviewed by the acting official to match the incident report. Not sure why this is surprising.

It wasn't part of that quote but right after that it says that while those reports go in the case file, they don't make a copy to go in the officer's personnel file. I assume this is bad in cases where an officer might have a large number of complaints filed about their behavior over the years, but there would not necessarily be an easy paper trail to find that information out and whether the officer has a pattern of complaints against them.

[Nephlite]

Ah, I got you. The complaint will go in to their file, weather it was justified or not. At least that's how it is in my department, along with a copy of the incident report and UOF report.

[Sho]

It's been established that the officer did not know that Brown was involved in a robbery. The officer stopped him for walking in the street. The release of the report of the robbery establishes a possible desperation motive for Brown, as his perception might have been the officer is stopping him due to the alleged robbery. The defense for Wilson is going to use that to back Wilson's story.

They indeed will hold that as a possible desperate motive, but that dog don't hunt. There's still no justifiable reason to use extreme force to subdue an unarmed man. He could have used a taser instead or called for back up. When Brown put his hands up after being shot in the back, Wilson could have shouted at him to get on the ground or do any number of actions to place Brown in a submissive position for arrest. No one wants to die in that manner, especially for stealing a box of cigarillos, even moreso after a supposed altercation with an officer with a loaded weapon. Even the fact that Brown turned around and surrendered suggests that Brown had faith in believing Wilson would stop shooting at that moment as a police officer.

What we do know is the fact that the first shot happened in the vehicle. Brown was either struggling to get free to flee and/or attempting to grab Wilson's gun. Wilson got out of his vehicle and gave chase. Wilson shot a volley of shots at Brown and his friend, who hid behind a car. A bullet struck Brown in the back. Brown turns and puts his hands up and exclaims "I don't have a gun" and "don't shoot." Wilson shoots Wilson with another volley of shots, killing him. The officers that came on the scene did not check Brown for a weapon or check to see if he was alive, signifying that they knew he was unarmed and dead.

Wilson also deserves to be defended in a court of law as well. However, it's not looking good for him at all.

[archibaldcrane]

Yeah, they said there's no way to see complaints against an officer since they didn't put them in the officer's files, only the case files.

[Nephlite]

Wilson also deserves to be defended in a court of law as well. However, it's not looking good for him at all.

Not looking good for either. That's why the investigation is taking so long. People are screaming for an indictment, but you gotta make sure you cross all your t's and dot all your i's when you're looking for a Murder conviction, especially if it's a Police Officer. The DA could very well find from the investigation that Wilson acted under the scope of Qualified Immunity and decline to press charges.

[Sho]

The situation also raises more questions regarding Wilson's information and mental mindstate during the killing, both of which will be questioned by court. Did Wilson know Brown was a suspect in the robbery? I know all about the press release that came out stating that he did not know. If he did not know and he simply stopped Brown and his friend for jaywalking, does that justify using extreme force?

If he did know that Brown was a suspect in the robbery and assault on the store clerk, why would he simply tell Brown and his friend to get out of the street? An officer would be far more serious in tone and manner if correctly identified a suspect in a crime/misdemeanor. Did Wilson radio into dispatch before he engaged Brown?

[Nephlite]

The situation also raises more questions regarding Wilson's information and mental mindstate during the killing, both of which will be questioned by court. Did Wilson know Brown was a suspect in the robbery? I know all about the press release that came out stating that he did not know. If he did not know and he simply stopped Brown and his friend for jaywalking, does that justify using extreme force?

If he did know that Brown was a suspect in the robbery and assault on the store clerk, why would he simply tell Brown and his friend to get out of the street? An officer would be far more serious in tone and manner if correctly identified a suspect in a crime/misdemeanor. Did Wilson radio into dispatch before he engaged Brown?

By all accounts, Wilson did not know that Brown was a suspect in the case. The way the defense will portray it, they'll say that Wilson stopped Brown for a minor infraction and Brown got spooked that the Officer was spot checking him for the robbery. Guilty Mind, or the Mens Rea will provide motive for grabbing/punching the officer and then going for his weapon to shoot the officer.

From a LEO perspective, and the way the story is going, Brown was stopped and a struggle ensued for whatever reason that forced Brown to push Wilson back in the car where he allegedly went for Wilson's gun. This is Deadly Force according to my Use of Force policy, and it is pretty much across the board in terms of LEO responses. The initial shot and fleeing shots within close proximity of Wilson would be justified under the Self-Defense, Deadly Force with Deadly Force argument. I would like to say though, once the threat is outside your safe zone, it's really hard to justify the response unless there's other factors playing in to it that we don't know (reaching for a weapon, charging Wilson, etc.)

I tell people all the time to get out of the street when I'm on patrol. You'll see it just about every night; some knuckleheads walking right down the middle of the street. By the account of the witness (Johnson), the officer pulled up and started yelling at them when Brown started giving Wilson crap. Wilson pulled up along side Brown and opened his car door, striking Brown with it. A scuffle ensued, and that's where the rest of the scenario played out. If there was a hostile interaction between the two, he might've radioed it in, but I don't usually radio in if it's just a normal spot check. Stuff like that is dynamic, but it holds to complacency when we don't do it for seemingly minor interactions that can quickly spiral out of control.

[tyven]

I know it's not the same thing but articles like this don't give me a lot of hope http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...l#.U_AvNXrD8m_

[Quicklet]

https://twitter.com/JABuchanan/statu...58835460833280

Media confined to staging area in front of Ferguson Market from midnight to 5. If outside area, subject to arrest.

[Nephlite]

Common tactic in ICS situations like this. Media staging area to protect them from harm. Al Jazeera didn't heed that warning the first time and got a canister of tear gas launched at them. Definitely purposely, but definitely something that could have been avoided.

[Sho]

By all accounts, Wilson did not know that Brown was a suspect in the case. The way the defense will portray it, they'll say that Wilson stopped Brown for a minor infraction and Brown got spooked that the Officer was spot checking him for the robbery. Guilty Mind, or the Mens Rea will provide motive for grabbing/punching the officer and then going for his weapon to shoot the officer.

From a LEO perspective, and the way the story is going, Brown was stopped and a struggle ensued for whatever reason that forced Brown to push Wilson back in the car where he allegedly went for Wilson's gun. This is Deadly Force according to my Use of Force policy, and it is pretty much across the board in terms of LEO responses. The initial shot and fleeing shots within close proximity of Wilson would be justified under the Self-Defense, Deadly Force with Deadly Force argument. I would like to say though, once the threat is outside your safe zone, it's really hard to justify the response unless there's other factors playing in to it that we don't know (reaching for a weapon, charging Wilson, etc.)

I tell people all the time to get out of the street when I'm on patrol. You'll see it just about every night; some knuckleheads walking right down the middle of the street. By the account of the witness (Johnson), the officer pulled up and started yelling at them when Brown started giving Wilson crap. Wilson pulled up along side Brown and opened his car door, striking Brown with it. A scuffle ensued, and that's where the rest of the scenario played out. If there was a hostile interaction between the two, he might've radioed it in, but I don't usually radio in if it's just a normal spot check. Stuff like that is dynamic, but it holds to complacency when we don't do it for seemingly minor interactions that can quickly spiral out of control.

This is why I go back to the fact that people will question his mindstate. In the Use of Force Policy and Guideline book it states that Deadly Force is used when an officer has reasonable belief that a subject poses an imminent danger of serious physical injury or death to the officer or another person. If he allegedly went for the gun is up for debate, there are other accounts that state that Wilson got Brown in a chokehold from inside the car and struggled to get free to flee from the scene. It also states under F. that an officer should avoid placing themselves in a position where they have no alternative to using deadly force. Wilson definitely had an alternative means to resolve the situation as soon as Brown broke free to run away.

"5. Deadly force is not authorized solely to prevent the escape of a fleeing subject. Deadly force against a fleeing subject is only authorized if there is probable cause that:
a. The subject has inflicted or threatens to inflict serious injury or death to the officer/agent or to another person and:
b. The escape of the subject poses an imminent threat of serious physical injury or death to the officer/agent or to another person."

However, this is completely thrown out of the window once Brown complied to surrender. If Wilson made a judgement call to kill a now surrendering suspect, it was a very bad call on his part. He should have deescalated the situation in his mind and simply arrested him instead. I know this isn't the movies, and a situation can get very real very fast, but that doesn't mean officers such make extreme calls in every situation. Not everyone has an ulterior motive to charge for a gun once the hands go up.

[6souls]

"A hardcore group has congregated on Red's Barbeque lot. They say they aren't moving. Some are armed." - https://twitter.com/AntonioFrench/st...68671271862273

[Enkidu]

There's also testimony that Brown ran at the officer after the short pursuit and the officer fired multiple shots as Brown advanced on him. Not a cop, but pretty sure that would warrant deadly force as well.

[6souls]

Live stream

[Nephlite]

People were rejoicing when the Missouri Highway Patrol got there, how it was all honkey dorey and Captain Jackson said "No more tears, no more fears" and started marching with the protestors. Now they'll see the (even more) brutal and militarized versions of the MHP Riot Control manual in full effect.

[Sho]

There's also testimony that Brown ran at the officer after the short pursuit and the officer fired multiple shots as Brown advanced on him. Not a cop, but pretty sure that would warrant deadly force as well.

It's going to have to hold up against the numerous accounts that portray Brown was fleeing. Thankfully, science of our time is amazing and we'll get a clearer picture once the autopsy report is in.