The Ferguson, Missouri thread

[jmc]

Uh, yes they are. They can't just arrest you without charging you and if they're charging you and you ask if you're being charged they can't just not tell you unless they want to make it worse for themselves.

Now I don't care how it practically works for you guys, but I know my rights.

I won't fight a cop trying to actively arrest me but I'm not required to go somewhere just because a guy in a uniform tells me to.

While its good policy to just say why a person is being arrested at the time of the arrest(otherwise the officer would just get asked every 5 seconds), most departments are not required to unless there is a state law saying otherwise.

[Xno Kappa]

I can't speak for local cops, but as a federal agent once you start to question an individual you have to advise them of their rights and what they're being questioned for.

[jmc]

I can't speak for local cops, but as a federal agent once you start to question an individual you have to advise them of their rights and what they're being questioned for.

Thats usually what I do, ill briefly explain why someone is being detained. However I don't need to list off charges at time of arrest

[Gadritan]

Yeah, I was gonna say, it does vary by state. Unless you're a threat, they can't cuff you here without informing you what the charges are.

[FNH]

Uh, yes they are. They can't just arrest you without charging you and if they're charging you and you ask if you're being charged they can't just not tell you unless they want to make it worse for themselves.

Now I don't care how it practically works for you guys, but I know my rights.

I won't fight a cop trying to actively arrest me but I'm not required to go somewhere just because a guy in a uniform tells me to.

I've only found one state, NY, to have a statute requiring suspect to be informed at time of arrest. Seems like all others have up to the 48 hr period of a probable cause hearing, except in the case of a warrant in which time it is deemed to be required when practical which can be between arrest and booking.

[kuronosan]

So a cop can just arrest me for whatever they want without informing me?

[FNH]

So a cop can just arrest me for whatever they want without informing me?

If you think they'll will just pluck you off the street or out of your home, then no. But if there is probable cause or a warrant then, yes. There are are guidelines to a maximum amount of time they have to inform you, and so far, only one state seems to have a guideline for a minimum time frame. I don't think this applies to plain clothes officers, since I think resisting a nonuniformed officer is pretty valid instincts.

[Gadritan]

If you think they'll will just pluck you off the street or out of your home, then no. But if there is probable cause or a warrant then, yes.

Not to go all Bum on ya, but that kinda shit happens every day.

[FNH]

Not to go all Bum on ya, but that kinda shit happens every day.

My white privilege has never experienced it, so I don't automatically think that that would happen on the reg. I would probably be more wary of that being the case if I had experienced it in some way, but as it stands I don't automatically fear it. From my perspective if I got stopped or got a knock on my door, I would assume that it was either a mistake in which case I would have my attorney sort it out or that they had some evidence(or were going to procure it from a search warrant) and I would have my attorney sort it out. I would like to know why I was arrested too, but making a larger problem for myself if they drug it out through the 48 hr period doesn't occur to me.

Is there a real suspicion(based on fact?) that people get randomly arrested? I'm not saying that mistaken identity doesn't happen, but the fear of just getting arrested for no reason strikes me as odd.

[Charismatic]

Is there a real suspicion(based on fact?) that people get randomly arrested? I'm not saying that mistaken identity doesn't happen, but the fear of just getting arrested for no reason strikes me as odd.

lol.

Happens a lot. This was one of the more recent high profile ones that happened in my area 'cause ol' dude is a lawyer and decided to sue the city.
http://abc13.com/news/attorney-false...es-hpd/404707/

[jmc]

In that story it doesn't appear he was arrested though, just detained until they investigated the alarm.

[FNH]

lol.

Happens a lot. This was one of the more recent high profile ones that happened in my area 'cause ol' dude is a lawyer and decided to sue the city.
http://abc13.com/news/attorney-false...es-hpd/404707/

In my mind this falls under the "mistaken identity" category. Wrong place, wrong time type situation where he was doing nothing wrong but happened to be in the area when a call came in. Shouldn't happen in a perfect world, but he was in the area of an alarm and had money. I guess people could be paranoid of always being the suspect if they happen to be in the area of a crime, I sure wouldn't want to fit the description of a suspect or other such situation. My question was more of, do people think they are just going to be picked up for simply being of a certain race or religion similar to Nazi occupied Europe?

[Gadritan]

There's also a lot of instances of police arresting someone who hasn't done shit, but they're profiling or have a hunch, after the arrest they find drugs/paraphernalia on them, and make up a probable cause after the fact. Edit: They're still violating their rights, and let's not forget those that they don't find anything on and let go. It scares the shit out of ya and good luck filing a complaint.

Not to mention cops literally planting shit on innocent people to serve a certain agenda. Loads of documented cases like this. There was a high profile one a year or so ago in Miami iirc.

[notorious bum]

Officer Die-beetus exposed as the piece of garbage that he is, besides the obvious patch of honor that he was proudly sporting.

[Nephlite]

So a cop can just arrest me for whatever they want without informing me?

It doesn't usually go that way, but as long as the officer has PC, there's usually no requirement for them to tell you what you're under arrest for.

There's also a lot of instances of police arresting someone who hasn't done shit, but they're profiling or have a hunch, after the arrest they find drugs/paraphernalia on them, and make up a probable cause after the fact. Edit: They're still violating their rights, and let's not forget those that they don't find anything on and let go. It scares the shit out of ya and good luck filing a complaint.

Not to mention cops literally planting shit on innocent people to serve a certain agenda. Loads of documented cases like this. There was a high profile one a year or so ago in Miami iirc.

Doesn't happen very often, fortunately. Also fortunate for most bad stops, jurisdictions aren't futzing around. They drop your charges and give you a few million to go away.

[NynJa]

It doesn't usually go that way, but as long as the officer has PC, there's usually no requirement for them to tell you what you're under arrest for.

The problem arises when theyre arrested under suspicion of "armed robbery in the area", dont mention this at time of arrest, get to station, find a minuscule amount of weed on them, then say "drug related charges".

[Nephlite]

The problem arises when theyre arrested under suspicion of "armed robbery in the area", dont mention this at time of arrest, get to station, find a minuscule amount of weed on them, then say "drug related charges".

That rarely happens. If it does, then I haven't seen a case go forward with charges if the stop was bad. There have been cases where the accused has been found in possession, and the PC for the initial arrest was good, but the initial charges can get dropped depending on the diversion offered and the plea bargain.

Remember: Reasonable Suspicion to detain. More than a mere hunch, it requires the officer to have reasonable articulatable suspicion that the suspect has or is about to commit a crime.

Arrest requires Probable Cause. More than 51% certain the person you detained has committed a crime. You can't arrest a robbery suspect off a clothing description alone. You can detain them, but in order to arrest, you need more, like a show up, surveillance, proceeds of crime, etc.

[Acevalefor]

You have no idea how many times this happens because there is no possible way to track it as the officer(s) involved will never come out and say "I detained him on a bullshit theft suspicion because he was at a bus stop 3 blocks away from a store and was black, then found a pipe on him, so I changed what I was charging him with because he actually wasn't anywhere near the store and didn't fit the description."

Not informing the detainee what they are being detained for provides ample opportunity for officers to search the person and their car, backpack, etc. then create a good reason to detain them that fits the charges after the fact. Don't tell me it doesn't happen.

[FNH]

You have no idea how many times this happens because there is no possible way to track it as the officer(s) involved will never come out and say "I detained him on a bullshit theft suspicion because he was at a bus stop 3 blocks away from a store and was black, then found a pipe on him, so I changed what I was charging him with because he actually wasn't anywhere near the store and didn't fit the description."

Not informing the detainee what they are being detained for provides ample opportunity for officers to search the person and their car, backpack, etc. then create a good reason to detain them that fits the charges after the fact. Don't tell me it doesn't happen.

They have to show probable cause to get the hypothetical drug item, well if they want the charge to stick.

[Clash Perez]

They have to show probable cause to get the hypothetical drug item, well if they want the charge to stick.

Is this something more than, "I saw it in his hand as I drove by, prove I didn't"? Because that really seems like it wouldn't be a problem at all.