The Ferguson, Missouri thread

[Acevalefor]

You mean like the officer testifying that he was a suspicious person acting as if he was intoxicated? Or any number of things you can tie to a search pursuant to arrest?

[Acevalefor]

Is this something more than, "I saw it in his hand as I drove by, prove I didn't"? Because that really seems like it wouldn't be a problem at all.

This is exactly what it is.

[FNH]

How does telling/or not telling charges matter if they are all going to make it up? If you believe they are going to plant evidence or find something in the course of making up charges, what does it matter? I don't even think that makes up 1% of arrests.

[NynJa]

The two cops in this thread pretty much said "i dont have to but it makes things a lot smoother". Read the last 5 words, thats the point. If a cops going to put you in cuffs and says "it doesnt matter why im arresting you" then goes off in miranda rights, yes that will piss off the person being arrested and make them want to resist since they arent even being told WHY theyre being arrested. This should be something out in the clear from the get go if possible.

How does telling/or not telling charges matter if they are all going to make it up?

How many people have cell phones these days? How often do people see cops and start recording immediately? If someones recording a cop saying "youre under arrest for matching the description of someone in the area who robbed a store", then change it to a drug charge because they found drugs on them, it cant stick afaik.

[FNH]

The two cops in this thread pretty much said "i dont have to but it makes things a lot smoother". Read the last 5 words, thats the point. If a cops going to put you in cuffs and says "it doesnt matter why im arresting you" then goes off in miranda rights, yes that will piss off the person being arrested and make them want to resist since they arent even being told WHY theyre being arrested. This should be something out in the clear from the get go if possible.


How many people have cell phones these days? How often do people see cops and start recording immediately? If someones recording a cop saying "youre under arrest for matching the description of someone in the area who robbed a store", then change it to a drug charge because they found drugs on them, it cant stick afaik.

Sure but why would they do that if they don't think the charges will stick? Hassle someone and make themselves look incompetent? The exclusionary rule and every concept tied to it is drilled into the heads of everyone in the justice system. Do you all really think that police would do that whether they have to declare the arresting reason? Are they going to pick you up for nothing and hope they find something later? I don't get the paranoia behind it even after reading the Supreme Court ruling on Devenpeck v. Alford in which they state it isn't a violation of the constitution to not declare probable cause at arrest.

[Acevalefor]

Because the charges will stick when they can write in the reason for detaining me after the facts are known. They can literally make up whatever they want. But if they tell me from the start why they are detaining me, especially if there are witnesses, they have to stick to what actually happened. This is one of the reasons we are talking about body cameras. Accountability. They have a metric shit-ton of power over citizens. Making things more transparent and holding everyone accountable is never a bad thing. As the cops in this thread have already said, it is much easier and better for all involved to just tell the person why they are being detained or arrested.

[Nephlite]

The two cops in this thread pretty much said "i dont have to but it makes things a lot smoother". Read the last 5 words, thats the point. If a cops going to put you in cuffs and says "it doesnt matter why im arresting you" then goes off in miranda rights, yes that will piss off the person being arrested and make them want to resist since they arent even being told WHY theyre being arrested. This should be something out in the clear from the get go if possible.


How many people have cell phones these days? How often do people see cops and start recording immediately? If someones recording a cop saying "youre under arrest for matching the description of someone in the area who robbed a store", then change it to a drug charge because they found drugs on them, it cant stick afaik.

Just one more point, I don't have to read you your Miranda Rights. In fact, I'd say nearly 85% of my arrests didn't require me to Mirandize the Suspect. Miranda deals with custodial interrogation. All I usually need is identifiers, which isn't covered by Miranda.

Because the charges will stick when they can write in the reason for detaining me after the facts are known. They can literally make up whatever they want. But if they tell me from the start why they are detaining me, especially if there are witnesses, they have to stick to what actually happened. This is one of the reasons we are talking about body cameras. Accountability. They have a metric shit-ton of power over citizens. Making things more transparent and holding everyone accountable is never a bad thing. As the cops in this thread have already said, it is much easier and better for all involved to just tell the person why they are being detained or arrested.

It depends on the context sometimes. Lately, I have to chase and tackle people more often, so there's little time to tell them why.

Policies like Stop and Frisk in New York are what caused a lot of people to distrust a lot of police action. Their policy essentially was frisk everyone you stopped. But, the stop was usually good, the frisk part wasn't. RS can be anything. I've stopped guys for loosies before, which is not illegal in DC, but they didn't appear in traditional cigarette form (they were rolled up in rolling paper). I identify myself, told him why I was stopping him, and requested his ID. So my RS was guy was selling joints (not uncommon) and after I identified him, he had warrants for his arrest. The joints were tobacco, so I couldn't charge him with that, but I did charge him with the FTA warrants. During my search of him, he had a gun on him. Felony CPWL and he got charged with that.

So yeah it does happen, but just because the initial crime doesn't check out sometimes, doesn't mean our involvement ends or should end. We are given a bit of leeway when investigating as that's what we get paid for: to investigate crime and take people to jail. RS and detainment, as long as it's reasonable, allows a police officer to fish. Generally, it all works out in the end and the person is free to go. Sometimes, it doesn't. Nature of the beast, I'm afraid.

[Khajit]

Not new news to me but since this somehow didn't make it into the thread by now.
http://www.alternet.org/white-woman-...-killed-police

[Nephlite]

Not new news to me but since this somehow didn't make it into the thread by now.
http://www.alternet.org/white-woman-...-killed-police

Think another article was linked on a different thread.

This one's pretty inflammatory, nonetheless. There's various accounts of what happened in this incident, including preliminary information released by the press stating that the woman went on a shooting spree in the neighborhood. The only police related information I have come up with in searching different news sources is:

It was confirmed she fired one shot at a stop sign in to a black SUV.

She led police on a chase and surrendered peacefully. She was allegedly wearing body armor.

What I find on freethoughtproject, alternet, and a couple other news sites:

She fired multiple shots (unconfirmed) and it was a shooting spree/rampage. She should have been shot, but because she was white, she wasn't.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/l...-had-r/280425/

The only thing I think is relevant is she dropped the weapon when ordered instead of trying to pull it out or move. I'd have to see more accounts of what happened, but in my opinion, I would have probably killed her. If she indeed dropped the gun after being ordered, and if the accounts of her pulling up to the officer and drawing it out, I think the only thing that would have been going through my mind at that time is "I'm lucky she didn't kill me." and would have immediately freaked out.

But that's just me.

[Khajit]

Actually being told to drop the weapon is about 16 shots better than if she was black.

[Nephlite]

Actually being told to drop the weapon is about 16 shots better than if she was black.

Yeah yeah.

Additionally:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/287413631.html

[Acevalefor]

Yeah yeah.

Additionally:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/287413631.html

That's blocks away from where I spent some of my teenage years. In Portland. Why is it coming from a Seattle website? I am sure it is on KATU as well, but you don't usually see the neighborhood shenanigans from Portland hit Seattle news.

Anyways, Peacock Lane is a Portland landmark where there is a section of the HOA specifically requiring residents to decorate for Christmas, and people come from all over Portland to walk the short street with 20 houses on it. It's in a not-so-great area and Portland Police are hired each year to stand there and look like they want to be there. I am guessing the police presence is what these opportunists thought was a good reason to make their own lyrics and taunt the police with them. It does not surprise me one bit that this happened where it did. SE Portland is a high crime, poverty stricken part of the city.

[notorious bum]

A grand juror says McCulloch mischaracterized the Darren Wilson case. http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/...ed-wilson-case



Bar Complaint Filed Against McCulloch
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2015/01/...nst-mcculloch/

A bar complaint against St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Bob McCulloch and Assistant Prosecuting Attorneys Kathi Alizadeh and Sheila Whirley has been filed regarding the handling of the Ferguson grand jury.

Attorney and former judge James R. Dowd and attorney Robert Ramsey reviewed the grand jury transcript – including evidence, witness interviews and testimony – before a group of seven citizens and attorneys – led by Christi Griffin, founder of the Ethics Project – filed an 11-page complaint with the Office of the Chief Disciplinary Counsel in Jefferson City, Missouri.

Griffin says the complaint focuses on more than 15 Rules of Professional Conduct the group believes were violated

[Blubbartron]

I think the bar complaint will end up having the biggest impact. The protests are nice for raising awareness, but at the end of the day for stuff like this, prosecutors aren't doing their jobs. If you scare the prosecutors into doing their jobs and not treating cops with kid gloves, it'll cause a ripple effect of changes. Prosecute a few more "good" shoots and cops start being a little less trigger happy. Tensions go down, people behave a little better, everybody wins.

[notorious bum]

[BaneTheBrawler]

I think that graph requires more context. Please explain what you are trying to communicate. With words.

[notorious bum]

Google Searches for black on black crime when black victims are in the news.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Yes, that much is visible. I am asking how that is relevant. Why are you posting this? What are you trying to communicate?

[Nephlite]

A grand juror says McCulloch mischaracterized the Darren Wilson case. http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/...ed-wilson-case



Bar Complaint Filed Against McCulloch
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2015/01/...nst-mcculloch/

Nothing new, really. Just about every high-profile case requires at least one lawyer to file misconduct charges.

Yes, that much is visible. I am asking how that is relevant. Why are you posting this? What are you trying to communicate?

The usual rhetoric. Honestly, you guys yell at me all the time for stuff, but I don't see how a lot of this information that's been posted by bum doesn't require at least a serious tongue lashing.

[Acevalefor]

Edited: First part was not necessary. Sorry.

Is there any reason those searches are relevant? There isn't even a scale on the number side. You get to see dates, but nothing else. Did you find this on Fox News or something?