The Ferguson, Missouri thread

[Andalusian girls]

haha yeah

[6souls]

http://www.fox9.com/news/54130146-story

I didn't read the original article, but they have since updated it.

4 people being held until Monday while police make a decision to charge (a judge granted an extension);

-Allen Lawrence Scarsella, 23
-Joseph Martin Backman, 27
-Nathan Wayne Gustavsson, 21
-Daniel Thomas Macey, 26

Scarsella had admitted to a high school friend, who is an officer, that he was the shooter. The friend then passed the information to police.

The items seized from Scarsella's place are;

Police took iPhones, laptops, several camouflage jackets, a tactile vest, a pair of camouflage pants, ammunition, several gun cases, six pellet guns, among other items.

Scarsella also owns a .45

[Salodin]

If they surrendered voluntarily then I'd bet things went down as they said. They were herded until they had nowhere to go, then openned fire. This will be interesting, if being (a supposed) racist is enough to have violence threatened upon you, and if being a verbal instigator is enough to have your life threatened.

[FNH]

camo jackets, pants, "tactile"(sic) vest, gun cases(empty?), and pellet guns being seized is just ridiculous.

[archibaldcrane]

I think we're stretching what we know if we're saying their lives were threatened.

[Ghost_Wheel22]

camo jackets, pants, "tactile"(sic) vest, gun cases(empty?), and pellet guns being seized is just ridiculous.

Camouflage clothing is used by the miltary. You don't /need/ military-grade camo clothing or "tactile" vests!

Tactile vests? Nothing screams tacticool gearfagging more than something like this:
Register to see the NSFW content

[Salodin]

I think we're stretching what we know if we're saying their lives were threatened.

Everything in this case is an assumption right now other than a small group of white men were herded into a place they couldn't escape, and then opened fire. Would it make you feel better if the verbiage used was threatened, and not life threatened?

[archibaldcrane]

If you think they would've been beaten to death if they hadn't opened fire, feel free to say their lives were threatened.

[notorious bum]

The dudes in the video were talking about the neonazis getting pushed alongside a fence and then they peeled off while the instigators continued to push them away. There's no reason to believe they were pinned and had no escape from the non-existent flurry of punches, until we get some type of footage to prove otherwise.

[Ghost_Wheel22]

I'm leaning more towards grievous bodily harm eg multiple broken bones, facial disfigurement, organ damage, coma, and/or life-term disablements. Which is also a qualifier for the application of lethal force. And this is assuming only hands and feet with nobody picking up a rock, pulling a knife, wrapping a chain over their hands, or anything that would be viewed as extreme escalation of force.

[Karbuncle]

The dudes in the video were talking about the neonazis getting pushed alongside a fence and then they peeled off while the instigators continued to push them away. There's no reason to believe they were pinned and had no escape from the non-existent flurry of punches, until we get some type of footage to prove otherwise.

If you think they would've been beaten to death if they hadn't opened fire, feel free to say their lives were threatened.

/

I think we're stretching what we know if we're saying their lives were threatened.

I'm still of the mind that this situation could have escalated very quickly from either side, just so happens the "Neo-Nazis" acted first (Only solving a "problem" they created as a direct result of their own actions). Its purely hypothetical but I believe if the situation had played out with no guns involved that those three people could have easily been grievously wounded or beaten to death, even if accidentally. The racial tension in the states lately is strung so tight something as blatant as this could have easily led to deaths from either side... rather it be from a bad apple in the B.L.M crowd or the KKK folks deciding to go for broke.

But yes, we're all working off assumptions here until more evidence comes to light.

[thetruepandagod]

I'm just really perplexed that no one has posted any video in this thread so far considering the ENTIRE thing was livestreamed. And for anyone claiming they were secret KKK agents these guys were sitting there spouting off memes for a good 10min before anyone approached em and it all went to shit. I'm talking high school grade cringy memes talking about 2d waifu's and 3PD for a solid 10 minutes before someone came up and told one to take off this mask and he said no.


https://imgur.com/gallery/g3rDmcs

Official police report.
http://stmedia.startribune.com/docum...shot112615.pdf
excerpt:

[Karbuncle]

The "after" part of that video was posted a few pages back, not the before half, and not with the above text/report either though.

But now that we're proper educated. for the time being, until more evidence comes forth, Its removed most if not all of my "reasonable doubt" that this was anything but self defense, regardless of their alleged racism or not. According to that man, he clearly states the crowd started the situation with the demands to remove their mask, and actually escalated to punching one of them twice before giving chase to them (though we knew this before), for recording and not wanting to take off a mask... standing around live-streaming and spouting cringe worthy memes isn't a crime as far as I know... refusing the mask possibly but not in this situation.

Okay, well, my take has changed, but it'll probably change as new information develops and comes out still. But this throw the "KKK bait BLM to be shot" angle out the window for me. Still a lot unknown as the beginning of the video doesn't reveal all too much as its quite brief.

Guess I should read more next time.

(Oh, and if it turns out they are in fact neo nazi racists, I still think they're horrible people, regardless of self defense or not, my opinion on their legal defense doesn't mean i would agree on their racial views)

[thetruepandagod]

The "after" part of that video was posted a few pages back, not the before half, and not with the above text either though.

But not that we're proper educated. Its removed my "reasonable doubt" that this was anything but self defense, regardless of their alleged racism or not. According to that man, he clearly states the crowd started the situation with the demands to remove their mask, and actually escalated to punching one of them twice before giving chase to them (though we knew this before), for recording and not wanting to take off a mask... standing around live-streaming and spouting cringe worthy memes isn't a crime as far as I know... refusing the mask possibly but not in this situation.

Okay, well, my take has changed, but it'll probably change as new information develops and comes out still. But this throw the "KKK bait BLM to be shot" angle out the window for me.

Have some more info video.

Perspective of racist meme spouting KKK assassins.


Opposite perspective of the previous video @2:18
https://twitter.com/Kitschy_Hipster/...15435917004800

[Karbuncle]

Well fuck... I don't see how this wouldn't erase doubts it was self defense.

Edit: The person who approached them were the "Camp security" (i'm assuming honorary title) who were there to look for suspicious behavior because they had received threats from White Supremacist groups, apparently, who were the ones who used the racial slurs, not the people in the video. So they were working off a hunch these people were those anonymous racial supremacists, so of course the logical course of action was to approach them as a mob, tell em to take off their mask, punch them, and chase them.

This is all from the twitter feed of the person who was there, posted.

(Suddenly, silence)

[Salodin]

Sorry, went to see the hunger games.

I'm always cautious about "witness testimony" until everything official comes out; just look at the testimony Bum went on about for months before the official accounts came out detailing how flawed they all were. It all is mostly irrelevant any ways except the parts that detail whether the white men were assaulted or had reasonable reason to believe more assault was coming their way; saying bigoted things isn't a crime, but assaulting those that do is, and the way laws are now enables them to protect themselves which is what they did. It's as simple as that. Putting any extra thought into it only confuses you to the actual question: Did they have reasonable reason to believe their well being was in danger? All evidence so far points to yes, but again I'll avoid forming a concrete opinion until official information is out.

Some one before said it better; this is two sides taking things too far. It was bound to happen, and hopefully this incident promotes more talk about how we treat minorities, and how far minorities are allowed to push before some one pushes back forcefully.

[Karbuncle]

Sorry, went to see the hunger games.

I'm always cautious about "witness testimony" until everything official comes out; just look at the testimony Bum went on about for months before the official accounts came out detailing how flawed they all were. It all is mostly irrelevant any ways except the parts that detail whether the white men were assaulted or had reasonable reason to believe more assault was coming their way; saying bigoted things isn't a crime, but assaulting those that do is, and the way laws are now enables them to protect themselves which is what they did. It's as simple as that. Putting any extra thought into it only confuses you to the actual question: Did they have reasonable reason to believe their well being was in danger? All evidence so far points to yes, but again I'll avoid forming a concrete opinion until official information is out.

Some one before said it better; this is two sides taking things too far. It was bound to happen, and hopefully this incident promotes more talk about how we treat minorities, and how far minorities are allowed to push before some one pushes back forcefully.

The videos I've seen, being the ones posted here and the few I found digging around twitter, have mostly been silent/no sound, is there any sound evidence the four in the video spouted anything racist? Not discounting it, Its just the videos posted here so far have been silent and the one that has the guy talking about the "aftermath" he never once mentions they said anything racist, simply that they were there looking suspicious.

I can't verify they spoke a single word before being mobbed and assaulted, based on any videos i've seen so far. There is mention on the twitter during the situation they were "on guard" because they had previously been receiving threats from white supremacist groups, but no mention those in the video were of those group, only suspicions they could have been, which is why the 'camp guard' approached them.

[NynJa]

The only damage from the Ferguson protests came at the behest of a corrupt police and government. That's kind of like, their M.O., though.

You make it too easy.

edit: realized this was 2 pages ago. Oh well

[Churchill]

Sort of irrelevant to the chimpout going nuts on some kids but I find it hard to believe that other humans (some of you) find it hard to comprehend that after years of working as a police officer, a human being (think about that for a second) would develop perceptions that they (the human being) feels they need and are justified in order to survive while performing a dangerous job.

I think a lot of what happens in the cops kill random dude thread is terrible, and I think most cops are uneducated, high school jocks (or fat), etc, but none of that makes them not human. They should be punished, I wasn't kidding before when I questioned what would happen to police violence if a sangre por sangre scenario played out via vigilantes.

I don't think an educated person wouldn't be any different after 10 years of dealing with the shit cops deal with. They would likely develop similar 'perceptions' and maybe? handle situations differently but I find that to be an unreasonable assumption. You can't be exposed to the thought process and mentality of a culture of people, see your friends and coworkers (or blue shielded bros miriet) get killed for nothing because of that culture, and walk away without developing a system for not letting that happen to you. People who don't do that get killed.

This is a topic I can relate to since I hate sand people.

[Kyreth]

A NYT article claims that one of the three suspects was wearing a bulletproof vest.

Considering people have been shot at the Ferguson protests, including police- this might well have been considered a prudent thing.