The Ferguson, Missouri thread

[archibaldcrane]

That's really interesting, got links?

[Fiye]

Blacks with a Master's or better are out-earning whites with a Master's or better.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2015/med...ty-in-2014.htm

Bullshit. African Americans earn less ($1,390/wk vs $1,149/wk)

The same kind of difference exists on all levels, but shrinks as you get closer to no diploma.

I can't find staticistics for crime rates based of race in single parent households. All I've found is statics that 70% of juvenile incarcerations happens in families with one parent.

But Maroot, show some evidence please.

[Churchill]

well yea, that's what happens when you encourage a society where men are treated like shit, your kids are going to be worthless. aint no one got time for a single mom lol

[Marootsoobutsu]

That's really interesting, got links?

http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/47_fo...gedegrees.html

This is a little dated (10 years old). The trend had been largely increasing for black men, and particularly for doctorates, though Fiye's more recent numbers show that it may well have slipped again. It's the only one I had bookmarked from college; the rest were generally print-outs that I've long-since tossed, but from 2011~ when I took the class (may have been 2010), that's what the profs were bringing out. I have my notes from those articles, but not the articles themselves.

There was a lot of speculation as to why it was-- a lot of the theory was that blacks with a doctorate were filling a need in universities and major businesses and law firms, and were in relatively scarce supply, while Masters degrees didn't quite get the same foot in the door, and left many to still serve in lower-income black areas (either because whites generally hire whites, or because they wanted to give to and improve their neighborhoods-of-origin; it's probably both). One of the other reasons *seems* to be... the NCAA. At least according to this, black male athletes suffer enormous graduation rate differences compared to whites, and one would speculate that even many of those who have graduated have done so without actually being prepared for work, and have in fact been built up to fail after college when they are no longer worshiped as tiny gods. I would love to see stats on how large a percentage of black students at universities are scholarship athletes, and how much the stats change if they are removed from the equation. Because if there's one area I'm all ready to jump on the "This stuff needs reformed", it's the way athletes-- especially black athletes, and especially especially black athletes in the South-- are treated. Because I'm really struggling to think of another reason that black women would earn more than white women, but that black men would earn as much less than white men that they do on whole.

When it comes to the single parent household... rates of crime are fairly well studied (about 60% of total felons, and once other factors controlled for, SPH children are about twice as likely, according to Politifact. The rates of income are again dated (articles from 2005-2010). I don't have any links, though I have notes from lectures; I recorded very nearly perfect verbatim, and could dig through and see what I can find and if there were any citations in the lectures themselves. I know that one of the professors I had that talked about this has retired, but if you like, I'll email the other and see if he can send me some sources on the subject.

Some of it, from what I can recall, was semi-extrapolated-- children from SPH were more likely to have psychological issues and aggression issues, and were at least initially more likely to be fired, to abuse their children, a whole range of things. It looked at the increased rates of these kids, and compared the rates of the individual problems (depression, anxiety, violence, relative inability to commit in relationships (personal or professional), etc...), and looked at the wage rates therein. It isn't enough to say it's causal for sure (causal is so freaking near impossible in social sciences...), but it's definitely correlational. There are a ton of stats talking about it from right wing sources that I tend to avoid, but I could save some pain for y'all and dive through and see if any have anything looking like credible science that's more recent than my time in college. But basically, it's looking at the things that hit SPH children very disproportionately and that linger over time, and noting that, "Look, it's REALLY bad in a very long term as well as the short term for people." There is also some question still of causality: it's entirely possible that, by controlling for SPH, since so many blacks are from SPH, we're looking at issues that are of racism skewing the other data to a degree... though there are still more whites from SPH than blacks, so there's a limit to how much is one influencing the other, or if it's cyclical.

I know the wealth gap *does* persist despite degrees. There's lots of things going on there-- whites being more likely to have either inherited money/property and buying homes while blacks are less likely to have inherited at this point, and are far less likely to buy homes being two big parts-- but it's different from income.


Sorry; typed this up over a couple hours while running in and out. Might be disjointed.

[Fiye]

I agree with you on the thing with SPH. All the articles I found about it correlated to a 70% rate which agree with what you've found. Though the study's come from 1980-2000 (Though I honestly doubt that statistic changes much with the current shift of income inequality).

Do you have anything that discusses SPH by race though?

[Marootsoobutsu]

I agree with you on the thing with SPH. All the articles I found about it correlated to a 70% rate which agree with what you've found. Though the study's come from 1980-2000 (Though I honestly doubt that statistic changes much with the current shift of income inequality).

Do you have anything that discusses SPH by race though?

Oh, rates of SPH by race? Yeah. There's a TON of that.

Here's the Politifact on it, Datacenter.kidscount.org's report on it, it's really a HUGE problem in the black community (67% today, 20% in 1960). It's pretty widely documented, though, and has been cited as a major cause by a LOT of right-wing, family-focused groups for several decades. I think a lot of those groups ignore a lot of other factors, and have a tendency to jump too easily and readily to causation from correlation, but I haven't seen anything that disputes the rates themselves.

[archibaldcrane]

I was mainly interested in SPH/TPH by race by income, (and where you got the blacks with masters out earn whites stat from since I knew that was wrong.)

[archibaldcrane]

Regarding the NCAA - black student athletes have abysmal graduation rates...but they're still higher than black non-athletes

http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/48_bl...versities.html

[6souls]

Campaign Zero's compiled chart of some of the Major police forces' Use-of-Force Policies

https://twitter.com/deray/status/689832961672216580 | http://useofforceproject.org/#project

[Marootsoobutsu]

I was mainly interested in SPH/TPH by race by income, (and where you got the blacks with masters out earn whites stat from since I knew that was wrong.)

I'll email my professor, and see what he sends back.

[dasva]

well yea, that's what happens when you encourage a society where men are treated like shit, your kids are going to be worthless. aint no one got time for a single mom lol

Naw kids aren't worthless... the government pays you for them

[notorious bum]

Opportunistic frontman of BLM and proponent of parasitic TFA, Deray McKesson is running for mayor of Baltimore. Although it is recognized that Deray is merely a celebrity "leader" of BLM, and doesn't claim to be said leader, it is worth noting that Baltimore doesn't even have a BLM chapter. He will be one of 13 Dems running for mayor.

https://medium.com/@deray/i-am-runni...582#.twsdqoz5c

[kuronosan]

stuff

I'm sorry, but sociological data from recent studies in the medical community just don't agree whatsoever with anything you posted. In fact, several journals suggest quite the opposite- that being a minority of low SES makes you less healthy, less appealing to the mainstream society workforce, and less likely to be fostered versus white folks of the same disposition.

Class plays much higher than race, to be fair, since they did discover that irrespective of race these discrepancies exist, but race severely exacerbates the problem.

Frankly, I haven't felt it myself as a Latino male because I look white (as most Europeans do) but the current field I work in heavily favors all women (though mostly white). I see no outrage there, obviously, but the midwest is just one region.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that unless you have some journals backing up your claim that social circumstances show no racial bias you should probably stop saying that. My real world experience has been far different and, as you might guess, the free clinics I attend are vastly overrun with everyone *but* white people.

In closing, I'd also like to see what your professor has to say and what sources there are to corroborate your statements.

[Fiye]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...203-story.html

Baltimore's BLM leader applied to run for Mayor.

[6souls]

State-By-State breakdown of Body Cam Laws
http://apps.urban.org/features/body-camera/ | http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechc...-body-cam-laws

[notorious bum]

Man that Ferguson police beat, then charged for bleeding on their uniforms lost his lawsuit (2nd time, but this was for being falsely charged for "property damage")
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/c...6d033992d.html

[Salodin]

I didn't know that he was arrested for driving while intoxicated and being processed during so when this all went down. Also didn't know he broke the officers nose.

[6souls]

Cleveland settles Wrongful Death lawsuit with Tamir Rice's family for $6 million
$3 mil this year, $3 mil next year
http://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/04...wsuit-6million

[6souls]

https://news.vice.com/article/clevel...ement-toy-guns

Cleveland police union president wants the Rice family to spend the settlement on instructing kids on the danger of playing with toy guns.

[Yuri-G]

that's a good idea and all but they should probably just drop the matter altogether. you shoot someone's kid, justified or not, and you should probably just leave them the fuck alone.