The Ferguson, Missouri thread

[Tarage]

Feel free to live in one of those countries for an extended period of time and show us just how much better they are than we are.

Because a lesser evil totally can't call out a greater evil on being evil right?

EDIT: Before this gets into a retarded pissing match, let me state as clearly as I can how I feel about this. Is our shit fucked? Yeah. Should we be fixing it? Of course. Is their shit worse? You'd be an idiot to think it isn't. Should we not call them out on their shit since we have more minor shit here? Hell no. Don't give a free pass to horrible countries just because we aren't perfect. So yeah, I don't give a fuck what Russia or Iran says about us until they stop being complete assfucks.

[Kohan]

Feel free to live in one of those countries for an extended period of time and show us just how much better they are than we are.

Did you feel the need to wear a shirt that says "These colors don't run" while saying that? Maybe something similar, like "Love it or leave it?"

Seems to be a rash of people who only know how to associate criticism with extremism today.

[Tarage]

No, it's more that I don't give a shit what a country 10x or 100x worse than us is saying. Do you honestly believe they actually care if we are abusing our people? Do you honestly believe that Egypt is suddenly going to be a beacon of freedom? No, they are going to do the same shit they always did.

Why the hell should we care what they have to say?

EDIT: Or are you suggesting we should start taking tips from North Korea or something? Seriously, what IS the point you are trying to make here?

[Psion]

I don't give a shit whether an infection of hatred and bigotry is nearly killing a country or it's just starting to show signs of infection. regardless of how "bad" it is, the fact is there's a sickness in the country that needs to be dealt with, and ignoring what other countries are saying because "their infection is worse" is the most retarded thing you can say, just like it would be to ignore the advice of an ebola surviver warning you you're starting to show signs of the disease yourself because "well they were stupid and didn't keep themselves and their area clean enough to avoid infection, i'm totally careful about that."

When other countries are criticizing yours for being brutal, it doesn't matter whether they have a history of brutality or not. This isn't some pissing contest, the only thing that matters is "do we actually have a problem or not, and if so what needs to be done?

[Tarage]

Did I at any point say our shit isn't fucked? I believe I said that above.

I'm looking at intention here. Call me naive, but when our government says to Russia "stop arming people with weapons that they use to shoot down civilian aircraft", we aren't doing it because we hate Russia. We are doing it because we actually give a shit about people and don't want innocents killed. Now our hands aren't exactly clean in that situation either, but the intention is good. I don't for a second believe Russia gives two shits about our people or how many black kids get shot. Do you?

Do you see the conversation we are having here? You said it yourself.

do we actually have a problem or not, and if so what needs to be done?

That is a good question to be asking. I like that question.

Who in Russia is asking that question when we say the same thing to them? I guarantee you it's not even close to the same amount of people as it is over here. Is it a bad thing that I am happy we fucking care?

[Edelweiss]

Well, at least valid criticism is invalid if we don't like them for reasons.

Now I can sleep soundly at night.

[Kohan]

No, it's more that I don't give a shit what a country 10x or 100x worse than us is saying. Do you honestly believe they actually care if we are abusing our people? Do you honestly believe that Egypt is suddenly going to be a beacon of freedom? No, they are going to do the same shit they always did.

Why the hell should we care what they have to say?

I imagine you didn't miss the post that I quoted, since it was written in response to you. That contained the essence of the point: that saying "you're a hypocrite, therefore your criticism is invalid" is a cop-out. Is this going to make any of those countries suddenly change overnight and aspire to be the shining example by which we all must live? No, obviously. They're sitting there and mirthfully enjoying their opportunity to openly pick on the United States.

Despite their track records, is the fact that they're sitting there doing that nonetheless significant? Yes, it is. Issues can actually be nuanced and complex. You don't sit there and say, "well, you're worse than me, so I don't care what you say, even if it's valid." Unless you don't know how to handle criticism—then you will.

It's shameful to have countries with poor human rights records pointing the finger at you, and it should be. It should make you sit and consider what you're doing, and why they're getting this opportunity, instead of simply turtling-up and saying: "well, I'm mostly better than you, so I don't care if you point out my mistakes."

The criticism does not become irrelevant just because the person pointing it out is also a guilty party.

Additionally:

Who in Russia is asking that question when we say the same thing to them? I guarantee you it's not even close to the same amount of people as it is over here.

Whatever sort of basis your "guarantee" relies upon, I'm certain it's not in any way quantifiable.

People in the United States are not imbued with some sort of special gene that makes them "care more." People who are concerned with the welfare of others are born, raised in, and die in plenty of countries besides ours. It is not unlikely that there are plenty of people who do read such news and are concerned just as much as the average individual in the US is—or isn't. To believe anything else is to imply that we are collectively special in some way, and we are not.

[6souls]

Spoiler: show

[Tarage]

Well, at least valid criticism is invalid if we don't like them for reasons.

Now I can sleep soundly at night.

So you honestly believe the countries listed there give a shit about Michael Brown?

[Weegion]

We are doing it because we actually give a shit about people and don't want innocents killed.

LOL

[Edelweiss]

So you honestly believe the countries listed there give a shit about Michael Brown?

Thanks for continuing to miss the point.

It doesn't fucking matter the intent, even if they're just out to score human rights points. The fact is, they're valid in criticising the actions of the police and government thus far.

[Tarage]

Whatever sort of basis your "guarantee" relies upon, I'm certain it's not in any way quantifiable.

People in the United States are not imbued with some sort of special gene that makes them "care more." People who are concerned with the welfare of others are born, raised in, and die in plenty of countries besides ours. It is not unlikely that there are plenty of people who do read such news and are concerned just as much as the average individual in the US is—or isn't. To believe anything else is to imply that we are collectively special in some way, and we are not.

Maybe if they had the time to care. I'm pretty sure they have more important things to worry about than a kid getting killed in a country half the way around the world.

You seem to think that I don't think we should be criticized, or that I'm saying that criticism coming from countries worse than ours are invalid. Neither of those statements is true. I'm saying criticism that isn't meant isn't criticism, it's hypocrisy. They don't care WHAT we do so long as we look bad. If Brittan or France was saying shit? Yeah, I'd believe that they genuinely cared about our people. But China? No, fuck them. Fuck everything about them.

If ignoring insincere criticism is wrong, I don't care enough to be right.

Thanks for continuing to miss the point.

It doesn't fucking matter the intent, even if they're just out to score human rights points. The fact is, they're valid in criticising the actions of the police and government thus far.

Point nothing, I'm saying you're wrong. I'm getting your point and I'm saying it's stupid to care about what people who don't care about us say about us. I'd rather waste my care on people who do.

But apparently you have plenty of spare shits to give.

[Koul]

Pretty sure what we should be taking from those shit countries criticizing us is what path we may be going down and to put a stop to it. Rubber bullets, pepper spray, tear gas is definitely over-kill unless things get actually violent. I can also understand though if threats are made that the police need to take action to keep the peace ... somewhat.

I don't know what the police should've done with the water bottle incident. I don't feel like you just ignore that type of thing because it has the potential to incite the group and lead to something more intense. I feel like if they did nothing or ignored it because it wouldn't do any harm would just goad the agitators on. See how far they can push the cops till they burst. Not that it justifies random peaceful people getting pepper sprayed though.

The cops need to stop randomly arresting people or getting crazy and the fuckass civilians who are taunting the cops need to stop. I don't understand why someone would try and instigate shit

[6souls]

People on twitter saying that the "Go fuck yourself / I will shoot you" officer will be named by the end of the day.

[Edelweiss]

Point nothing, I'm saying you're wrong. I'm getting your point and I'm saying it's stupid to care about what people who don't care about us say about us. I'd rather waste my care on people who do.

But apparently you have plenty of spare shits to give.

Since we're making awful analogies and examples: If I sodomized you with a broomstick for fun and hypotheticals, perhaps one studded with razors and broken glass, and a serial rapist criticized me for jamming your ass with a rapebroomstick against your will, does their being a serial rapist invalidate their criticism? They also don't really care about you, for fun, since this seems to be the crux of your plowing.

And you'll need to check with Bane about spare shits.

[Kohan]

Maybe if they had the time to care. I'm pretty sure they have more important things to worry about than a kid getting killed in a country half the way around the world.

Why, because that's not important? By whose standards? Do you know every person in all of these countries? Are you able to assuredly rather than arbitrarily ascertain that they consider this unimportant?

As stated: not quantifiable. You look at these countries like "bad guys"—homogeneous masses to whom the individual, faceless members of the populace do not matter. You've even said they're "evil." It's childish labeling. Every one of them is populated by millions of individuals, and you cannot certainly state that not a whit of the people among them care. Likewise, you can't say that everyone in the US doesn't.

You seem to think that I don't think we should be criticized, or that I'm saying that criticism coming from countries worse than ours are invalid. Neither of those statements is true.

Really?

Why the hell should we care what they have to say?

Moving on.

I'm saying criticism that isn't meant isn't criticism, it's hypocrisy.

No, it's still criticism. You can't redefine criticism when you don't like it and don't want it. That's not how it works, especially if it can be independently proven valid, and in this case, it can be. That means it's valid—no ifs, ands, or buts.

They don't care WHAT we do so long as we look bad. If Brittan or France was saying shit? Yeah, I'd believe that they genuinely cared about our people. But China? No, fuck them. Fuck everything about them.

If ignoring insincere criticism is wrong, I don't care enough to be right.

Well, considering that you're openly talking about how individuals who don't care aren't worth listening to, we now know there's no reason to listen to you.

[Tarage]

Since we're making awful analogies and examples: If I sodomized you with a broomstick for fun and hypotheticals, perhaps one studded with razors and broken glass, and a serial rapist criticized me for jamming your ass with a rapebroomstick against your will, does their being a serial rapist invalidate their criticism? They also don't really care about you, for fun, since this seems to be the crux of your plowing.

And you'll need to check with Bane about spare shits.

If they don't care, why are they criticizing? How much is empty criticizing worth to you?

Should we care what China says about proper ass wiping etiquette is? At what point do you stop, say "nah you're a douchebag" and move on? Do you care what China thinks of us? Or do you only care that China is agreeing with you?

EDIT: Okay Kohan, you are clearly a beacon of humanity that all should strive to be like. Obviously I don't care about this situation or talking about it. I mean, all this typing I'm doing is obviously just me smashing my face into the keyboard. Go ahead and quote that out of context to get BG rep points. I won't stop you.

[Edelweiss]

If they don't care, why are they criticizing? How much is empty criticizing worth to you?

"Empty" criticism is probably still worth maybe taking a step back and reassessing what you've done to this point. But this is actually kind of substantive, even if the sincerity behind the statements are in doubt.

Should we care what China says about proper ass wiping etiquette is?

If there's a valid point about hygiene or something, sure.

At what point do you stop, say "nah you're a douchebag" and move on?

Like right now?

Do you care what China thinks of us?

Depends if they're actually making a valid point, regardless of how much our gubbamints don't like eachother/are economic or geopolitical rivals.

Or do you only care that China is agreeing with you?

See previous response.

How do you continue to not get this? lol

[6souls]

If anyone doesn't want to dig through this huge thread we've made for Ferg related images, I've put together an album of all of the images I've posted;

http://www.bluegartr.com/bucket/gall...m/461-ferguson

[Tarage]

How do you continue to not get this? lol

The same way you aren't getting it either. If you want to spend your life worrying what your enemies criticize about you, go right ahead. I'll trust my friends who have my best interests in mind instead.