The Ferguson, Missouri thread

[Nephlite]

So basically cops ARE above the law.

No because then you wouldn't ever see an instance of a police officer getting charged with a crime.

You could at least pretend to read my post!

[Nephlite]

I wouldnt be surprised if there are a couple people here who would be perfectly ok with that

Don't think that I'm against that completely. You hear about how the KKK infiltrated one of those agencies down in Florida? That shit right there is what gets your whole department dissolved.

[Quicklet]

If the Federal Government is willing to fork over the money to equip all 800,000 police officers in the U.S. with body cameras, then it'll be a no-brainer. Right now the way things are, only a large police force with a large amount of funding can afford them.

Not to be flippant, but maybe if departments spent less money on LRADs and MRAPs there would be more money available for cameras. Beyond the argument over whether they're actually helpful in the hands of most departments, even if they come at a discount from the federal government, they're still going to cost money to maintain. It's also not an all-or-nothing thing. Even if a department can't afford to outfit every car and every on-duty officer with them, you can start the process and implement them in the highest risk situations/areas where use of force may be more likely to occur. I'm also fine with the argument that departments that have bigger trust issues with their community may be more in need of cameras than those who have better relationships with the people they serve.

By the way, speaking of departments getting dissolved, that may end up being a possibility in Ferguson. It's going to depend on how much that community organizes, but from the few documents I've seen posted it appears they have the legal right to recall the mayor (who appoints / can replace the chief of police). Not sure how much control they have over the entire department through that, but it may be one of the options you see being considered as recourse if the community feels its needs aren't being served.

[Nephlite]

Not to be flippant, but maybe if departments spent less money on LRADs and MRAPs there would be more money available for cameras. Beyond the argument over whether they're actually helpful in the hands of most departments, even if they come at a discount from the federal government, they're still going to cost money to maintain.

I've heard this line of reasoning many times, and I'm a bit confused. Not to be a dick, but are people expecting it takes a scientist to fix the engine on a MRAP? It's a regular diesel engine, just a bit more beefed up to give it more umph. It doesn't contain a flux capacitor or a complicated nuclear-fuel injection system. It's a regular engine that can be repaired and maintained by anyone working in depot (we have paid mechanics that staff our fleet). It's not rocket science, and I'm still trying to figure out the supposed "exuberant costs of maintenance". It's not like they actively patrol in the things 24/7. You might see one deployed what? Once a month? Turn the engine on to keep the juices flowing? Change the oil?

It's also not an all-or-nothing thing. Even if a department can't afford to outfit every car and every on-duty officer with them, you can start the process and implement them in the highest risk situations/areas where use of force may be more likely to occur. I'm also fine with the argument that departments that have bigger trust issues with their community may be more in need of cameras than those who have better relationships with the people they serve.

I like the gradual phasing-in. Problems that I can foresee: maintaining the cameras, handling of storage of media (which drives the costs up tremendously), writing a policy for it, having someone on staff to fix it/swap out broken or damaged cameras, etc.

[BaneTheBrawler]

what's a gopro cost, like $300? 800k officers, that's 240 million. round up to 300 just because. we piss away more than that in seconds. pretty sure we can find some room for it somewhere.


still won't happen because of the unions and also because congress is worse than ass.

[AidenCarby]

Could divide that into how many shifts there are, they don't need to take the cameras home with them. THEY CAN SHARE BRO

[Uzor]

They could start by equipping all cars and working in pairs. I can understand cops overreacting to things if they work by themselves. They have no one to back them up. You need a tank and a support!

[Qalbert]

well they've (practically) got tanks...

[djzombie]

cameras are way more expensive than tanks bro. oh wait

[Meresgi]

cameras are way more expensive than tanks bro. oh wait

DoD ain't selling tanks though. What happens if you don't get the tanks now? You'll miss your chance and when ISIS attacks America what then?! WHAT THEN!?

[djzombie]

OH NOES TERRORISM

[Correction]

Another thing; I'd like cameras, but I want a solution to the problem of money. If the Federal Government is willing to fork over the money to equip all 800,000 police officers in the U.S. with body cameras, then it'll be a no-brainer. Right now the way things are, only a large police force with a large amount of funding can afford them. What's the solution? And don't say "Well it costs less than a lawsuit" because if the Federal Government mandated everyone needed a camera tomorrow, half the police forces in America would never be able to afford it and would be dissolved, as that up front cost and expenditure over the grace period would be some serious cash that most agencies will not be able to front off the top.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/nypd-...ays-1408638440

While not making the final selection, Ms. James's office is testing two brands of cameras that are the size of a pager and cost between $400 and $900 each. In other cities where the cameras are used—such as New Orleans and San Diego—Ms. James said they have helped reduce the burden of civil suits against police.

With all eyes on Ferguson, Mo., in the wake of the death of Michael Brown, a renewed focus is being put on police transparency. Is the solution body-mounted cameras for police officers?

New York City spends about $152 million on police misconduct settlements a year, she said. Outfitting every patrol officer with a camera would cost about $32 million, and the pilot program would cost about $5 million, Ms. James said.

NYC seems to be able to afford it. A good start, and far from the ZOMG Impossibru doomsday you've predicted.

[vagus]

They could start by equipping all cars and working in pairs. I can understand cops overreacting to things if they work by themselves. They have no one to back them up. You need a tank and a support!

Multiple cops can cover more area. In most areas a single cop can wait for backup.

A gopro should be mandatory. Starts to record the second the police leaves his seat.

[FNH]

Multiple cops can cover more area. In most areas a single cop can wait for backup.

A gopro should be mandatory. Starts to record the second the police leaves his seat.

It would be a little more complicated than that. That is likely the current hang up, "when does it record?". As has been stated, Police are not above the law, but they shouldn't also be afforded the same level of privacy as every other American, right? It should record during a stop, but not while in the restroom or on meal times. How would you trigger it to record for officers on foot, bicycle, segway, etc? And when it comes to costs, not every department is the same. If the municipalities, counties, and states increase taxes to fund it, it could happen.

[NynJa]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/nypd-...ays-1408638440



NYC seems to be able to afford it. A good start, and far from the ZOMG Impossibru doomsday you've predicted.

I didnt look this up, but I'm pretty sure NYC isnt exactly "relying on speeding tickets" for funding and has a lot more money than Ferguson.

[Correction]

I haven't seen the receipts yet on what this entire debacle is going to cost the St. Louis PD, but I'll bet a lot of my own money that they're about to have their most expensive year in lawsuits and settlements on record.

[kuronosan]

Can't do it guys. Protecting citizens is not financially viable. Easier to shoot them and settle in court after a paid vacation.

[Fondue]

Spoiler: show

I HAVE NO WORDS

[NynJa]

Can't do it guys. Protecting citizens is not financially viable. Easier to shoot them and settle in court after a paid vacation.

Just print money!!

[notorious bum]

Upcoming Fox News roundtable discussion: "Great, now our favorite superheros are going to have to wear freaking gopros in all their future movies and comic books. That's going to look so stupid. Are you HAPPY liberals???"