The Ferguson, Missouri thread

[Nephlite]

All cops knew the risk of being a cop before they became one now they're acting "paranoid". Give me a break lol.

Most cops know there's risk before starting, but I was touching on the paranoia that's set in through the training, the stories, the video, and the experiences officers get while working the street. Read my entire post!!!

statistically a lot of people get skin cancer so I'm sure you can understand why I refuse to let the tiniest sliver of sunlight into my room

Statistically, you're far likelier to get told to shut the hell up by Nephlite on a forum than dying from skin cancer. I still love you, though.

Thanks for your contributions to this discussion first of all.

I was wondering if the quoted applies to any lie, because I feel like it doesn't. When people talk about how the cops lie a lot, I don't think we're only talking about things like fabricating evidence or other larger schemes like Correction was mentioning - though that does seem to happen.

It seems extremely, extremely common - even in my own limited first hand experience with LEO - for police to lie about things like what will happen to the person being accosted if they do/don't say or do something, what the cops already "know", or other details that are designed to get the accosted to admit guilt or otherwise cooperate.

For example, "Your friend already spilled the beans, you might as well come clean" or "If you tell us the whole truth now then we can make this a lot easier on you" etc. Also BSing about on vs. off the record, how long and in what fashion the police are allowed to detain someone, and so on.

These are all extremely common from what I can tell, and almost to the point where police don't even seem to consider them lies, but tactics.

It's mostly shit tactics some officers to bait people right before the point of self-incrimination. Most of the time, you're already dead to rights. Those statements and questions that are asked are used to dig you in further before you get processed. A lot of video and language has been released to tell people not to talk to the police, for that very reason. Your only obligation pre-Miranda is to identify yourself. Any other question can be referred to a lawyer unless you're walking or driving in to a crime scene or secured area. Your involvement can be questioned there with legitimacy, and your access can be barred from there if you don't have a legitimate reason.

In the end, lying on the stand or fabrication of a police report is pretty rare. It seems like a lot of OIS has a tag on it that says "I feared he was reaching for a weapon", and courts have upheld that Police are held to a higher degree of trust when perceptions like that are conveyed when there's no actual proof that it went down that way. That's why I'm actually a fan of body cameras, as that mindset can be reflected with a good video of the perception.

[Kohan]

Racism is all about perception. If I don't perceive that I'm being biased by someones actions, then it's a simple case of that guy being an idiot.

This is not true at all. Racism is much more complex than that. It can't be pushed aside as a simple case of "sticks and stones may break my bones." As for the examples you cited: yes, they are all racist. Mistakes do not make discrimination rightful.

If you wish to pursue an incredible wealth of research, the following is well-referenced, and therefore covers much more than its title subject:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK25531/

[Nephlite]

Once people get to that point, then it'll disappear (the perception that it's racism) is what I'm trying to say. We, collectively (at least in my unit), have moved beyond the concept. It is wrong, and it is not an excuse to do it, but it's still not something that we believe to be racism.

I like so far what I'm reading, though. I will go through it more when I get a chance. Thanks for that.

[CoreyX]

Being a cop is the safest job there is. What other job gives you multiple deadly weapons attached to you 24/7, body armor, armored cars, and a license to kill anyone or any even remotely possible threat that even blinks at you, along with having a gang of these same people with weapons of their own to protect you (safety in numbers) and also shoot anything they want before it even has a chance to be dangerous? If you're working some cushy office job and someone comes up and wants to kill you you're screwed! If you're a cop you can just shoot them.

[Nephlite]

Being a cop is the safest job there is. What other job gives you multiple deadly weapons attached to you 24/7, body armor, armored cars, and a license to kill anyone or any even remotely possible threat that even blinks at you, along with having a gang of these same people with weapons of their own to protect you (safety in numbers) and also shoot anything they want before it even has a chance to be dangerous? If you're working some cushy office job and someone comes up and wants to kill you you're screwed! If you're a cop you can just shoot them.

I guess with that line of logic, then driving a car must be the safest thing in the world! You got those air bags, a seatbelt, rear and front bumpers, crash zones and impact crumple zones and other neat stuff set up in cars to keep you safe! Plus, you got a gang of other drivers on the road to cushion your vehicle just in case something happens, AND you can just drive your car in to people if you feel like they're a hazard!

Go away.

[Aksannyi]

The last two posts are A+.

[Byrthnoth]

First off, you're telling me to fact check, when you looked some shit up on Wikipedia of all places.

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2216

Second, try to imagine being exposed to violence and death every day, then tell me you wouldn't be paranoid. Or, why not be a cop and give it some time to figure out if you'd feel the same way or not instead of "you're stupid and don't know what you're talking about".

Damn Wiki, you stupid! Way to be off by a factor of 6~7!

Oh wait, or maybe they cited this: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fleo08.pdf

So it was just federal officers, sue me!



You're still paranoid. Here's the wikipedia article on paranoia for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia

[Qalbert]

don't click on that article someone is probably actively editing it to fuck with you

[Nephlite]

Damn Wiki, you stupid! Way to be off by a factor of 6~7!

Oh wait, or maybe they cited this: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fleo08.pdf

So it was just federal officers, sue me!



You're still paranoid. Here's the wikipedia article on paranoia for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia

I am. Never claimed I wasn't.

And I'm still madly in love with you.

[Xajii]

don't click on that article someone is probably actively editing it to fuck with you

Oh qalpal

[Ezek]

http://pastebin.com/vhhap7Ca

Was just linked this. Maximum trolling

[Dimmauk]

Jon Stewart fucking nailed it last night. If yall have the time, go watch last night episode.

[Ksandra]

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment...son_mo_i_have/

ferguson reporter ama

[Meresgi]

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment...son_mo_i_have/

ferguson reporter ama

I have to disagree. The national media representation of this event has been terrible. The media swarmed to get footage of the armored trucks, tear gas, rubble bullets and rifles like it was porn, but most didn't bother to film the food drive running during the day, just half block away. They preferred to paint the whole thing as a war zone. Fires and gunshots and looting got plenty of attention, but the clean up, the community begging for their town back got very little.
Very few media outlets presented anything in a balanced way. Either Mike Brown was a thug or a saint. Darren Wilson was a power mad racist murderer or a decorated brave cop doing his job. Every bit of information that came out was magnified 100x and slanted to whatever narrative that particular media outlet was shooting for.
In short, the national media wanted all the exciting dirty horror and none of the boring hope. Local media did slightly better, but still was quite lacking

Good stuff. Also @ the pastebin, I laughed far too hard at the donation goal of shekels.

[notorious bum]

A TRULY criminal “justice” system

We’re all supposed to be impressed with the fact that Attorney General Eric Holder parachuted into Ferguson MO the other day to wrap his arms around the local top black cop and get briefed on the pending federal investigation into the police killing of Michael Brown. But we shouldn’t be.

For the last 20 years, since 1994, Violent Crime Control & Law Enforcement Act obligates the Department of Justice to collect statistics on the extent of brutality and excessive force used by police officers, and to make those findings available to the public. 20 years down the road no such stats exist, because the Justice Departments of the Clinton, the Bush and the Obama administrations have all simply ignored the law and refuse even to try to gather the information.

Let me say this again: the Clinton Justice Department defied the law and refused to gather national stats on police misconduct. The Bush Justice Department thumbed its nose at the law and also refused to gather national stats on police misconduct, and now the first black attorney general, who sometimes even utters the phrase “mass incarceration”, which he recently discovered, selected by the first black president who says if he had a son, his son could be Trayvon Martin – Eric Holder and Barack Obama have likewise shown no interest whatsoever in fulfilling their legal duty when it comes to assembling a national database of police misconduct.

This should not surprise…

— Justice Dept Refuses For 20 Years To Comply With Federal Law Requiring It To Gather National Police Brutality Stats, Bruce Dixon, Black Agenda Report

[Quicklet]

The media swarmed to get footage of the armored trucks, tear gas, rubble bullets and rifles like it was porn, but most didn't bother to film the food drive running during the day, just half block away.

In short, the national media wanted all the exciting dirty horror and none of the boring hope.

Anyone who takes hope out of this situation going forward is a bit delusional. Hope for what? For Friends of Ferguson to paper over the longstanding racial divisions in that county so that they can go back to having police regularly harass minorities with little to no consequences?

There is plenty of room to criticize parts of the media for how they covered certain aspects of this, but if you're going to criticize anything, it should be how quickly the national media has moved on and how much uncertainty there is that things are going to change for the better there.

[Ksandra]

Anyone who takes hope out of this situation going forward is a bit delusional. Hope for what? For Friends of Ferguson to paper over the longstanding racial divisions in that county so that they can go back to having police regularly harass minorities with little to no consequences?

There is plenty of room to criticize parts of the media for how they covered certain aspects of this, but if you're going to criticize anything, it should be how quickly the national media has moved on and how much uncertainty there is that things are going to change for the better there.

I imagine hope was a term they used for things like the food trucks they mentioned.

[Quicklet]

I just don't see how when you weigh the two that you can come up with the food trucks and cleanup (some of which was necessitated by the police response or lack of police response on some nights) being equal in importance/interest.

Also, I don't know what outlets that person was paying attention to but some media have definitely tried to spotlight some of the positive forces in Ferguson.

[NynJa]

it should be how quickly the national media has moved on

"and back in Ferguson, nothing new has happened, protesters are still wanting Darren Wilson to be hung, rioters from out of town are blending in with the protesters trying to start riots and cops are still teargassing everyone. Oh wait, Common showed up, lets get a 10 minute interview with Common"

I mean, what do you want the media to do? Repeat the same 2 week old shit?

[test123]

Jon Stewart fucking nailed it last night. If yall have the time, go watch last night episode.

I think Bill hit the nail on the head: