Salvage Bans v 2.0

[ccl]

yeah I know about those, that's why I mentionned it, I meant with current ban, only cheater got hit, not the "legit" player around them.

[Draylo]

We keep going in the same discussions over and over lol, every time someone pops in and said "hey guys im suspended but I barely did anything".

[Trumpy]

Thats why I told myself I would stop reading this thread. then a couple weeks later I see it is somehow still going and feel obligated to check it. and then its just the same old same old.

[Howie Roary]

haven't played in years, are basic things like windower or gear swap scripts anything that would get flagged?

[NynJa]

haven't played in years, are basic things like windower or gear swap scripts anything that would get flagged?

http://a1.s6img.com/cdn/0008/p/1659741_10536977_lz.jpg

Otherwise, probably not. I doubt anyone here buys in to peoples claims that "I was just banned and I've never done anything wrong, all I use is windower, I've never used clipper or POS hacked or botted or anything at all, never ever nope ever"

[enoch]

Just occurred to me - anyone know of anyone being banned on the weekends? If there was an automated process, I imagine it'd run 24/7. But I guess that's not something to take for granted. Thoughts?

[D44kpunk]

no, bans stop friday 3 am and resume monday 3 am. it's someone pressing a button/a system that isn't run over the weekend

[Celebrindor]

An automated system could be generating a list that requires human eyes to approve. Not that I'm on board with the auto system, just sayin'

[Kari]

As far as I know they don't even ban "by association"; only the cheaters(but not everyone of them) of every group I play with got banned.

My one temp ban was (I assume) pos hacking (big jumps) in Neo Nyzul. This was way after it was new, but before most of the gear was outdated.
While I got a temp ban, none of my friends got hit and they were all clipping at 300% and going through walls and shit. Only difference was I was jumping to the lamp after every floor and they were only running fast/small clips through walls.

I really have no idea what SE has going on. The fact is, only one of 6 people got hit while all of them were breaking the rules at the same time in the same party. That would, normally, tell you that a human did not review this and it was automatic. But if it's automatic, what triggers it? I know people who claim to do large jumping across maps all the time, clip 300%+ all the time, and never get hit.

Same deal with this recent "ban wave", as I posted last week, it makes no sense. My friend got temped for cheating but I was always in his party/doing things with him, and I played while he was offline while he didn't. I can't make sense of either possibility honestly.

[enoch]

Yeah, and SE is in an unenviable position with respect to all this. If they lay it all out for us how it works, some folks will use that knowledge to try to game the system. If they don't, then probably those same folks will then probe the capabilities of the system to determine where the boundaries are. I come down on the side of more open communication and sharing of knowledge, from the simple curiosity of wanting to know how things work. I think that no matter what SE does, cheaters are gonna cheat and by the very nature of the act they accept the risks associated with it.

[NynJa]

An automated system could be generating a list that requires human eyes to approve. Not that I'm on board with the auto system, just sayin'

Then thats not an automated system. It might track and print out names of potential culprits, but if theres a human dropping the banhammer, thats no longer an auto-ban system.

[Celebrindor]

Argh it's just not that big of a deal. I was merely commenting on a possible system that could identify violations automatically, then log them, then have a real person go over the results. Same way not every tax return is audited manually, but if it's "flagged" you get a human audit. But if we're really gonna argue over semantics instead of trying to nail down what is being banned and what isn't (much more valuable, wouldn't we all agree?), by all means continue.

[NynJa]

But we know:
Dont fleehack
Dont POS around
Dont bot for 12 hours straight

[aionls]

So i've been spark farming with a few mules at a time, 1 killer the rest just leeching for 6-9 hour periods a day legit I may add so this really fucks me offl.

I wake up to this just two days after billing

"FINAL FANTASY XI User Agreement
3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including without limitation the disruption of SQUARE ENIX’s computers and servers."

All mules perma banned, first offence for them (if you can call it that)

LIke I said no cheating, all done legit. So does anyone have a clue why this would be classed as disruption? Has some scumbag really reported me because I was pulling all the mobs around me and killing them on bst? If so the rest of the freaking zone was empty go find your own camp.

[Damane]

converting sparks into gil in mass amounts might flag you prolly. in SEs eye it looks like RMT

[Saevel]

Dont fleehack
Dont POS around
Dont bot for 12 hours straight

I know several people that move at enhanced speed and haven't been banned while I know several others that don't touch that and still got hammered. Botting for long periods of time is a dead giveaway though it seems to have to be over 24 hours, or people see you and report you, then it's much less. POS around is plain stupid and just asking to be hammered, especially in zones like Nyzule, Salvage or Dynamis.

Argh it's just not that big of a deal. I was merely commenting on a possible system that could identify violations automatically, then log them, then have a real person go over the results. Same way not every tax return is audited manually, but if it's "flagged" you get a human audit. But if we're really gonna argue over semantics instead of trying to nail down what is being banned and what isn't (much more valuable, wouldn't we all agree?), by all means continue.

The automated system is part of the STF's routine roundup, usually monthly though they have run it multiple times in a month before. It's very noticeable because it'll be a huge mass ban all within an eight to twelve hour period that coincides with the Japanese workday. They run the numbers, it flags any accounts that hit positive on too many checks, they review the flags and if they feel it's RMT related they push the nuke button and that's it, someone's done for. I've figured out some of the checks but there are likely dozens of small ones looking for routine stuff or anything that could possible resemble things a RMT gil farmer would do, and since RMT usually do stuff that legitimate players do, well it's not terribly hard for a player to get caught up on a false positive. The only sure fire way I've seen to protect against a STF false positive is to be playing from a Japanese IP address, apparently the STF doesn't consider Japanese players to be potential gil farmers. The STF never does temp bans, once they identify a RMT gil farmer they nuke and move on.

Now a GM initiated banning is a different story, that's based on people doing GM reports along with any system notifications they have built it. Wouldn't surprise me if they have an automated system that notifies them to suspected TPT activity. It's much harder to nail this down because I'm dealing with overworked, underpaid office workers who collectively represent the bottom rung of IT related / Gaming support staff. The mood of the GM would have a big impact on whether they click the temp, perma or just give a small in game warning.

[Tidis]

I wonder if you're more likely to get flagged as pos hacking if you break the z coordinate? I was using clipper for a few months but was hit with a temp ban a few days after I got bored and clipped upwards instead of through things.

[aionls]

Just spoken with an agent and this is what I was told, pretty much banned for spark farming with no tools, I was pulling mobs with bst and killing, again no tools used.

" SEE Agent Pierre: Hello and thank you for contacting SQUARE ENIX Customer Support. Just a few moments while I review your question, please.
You: Perma banned for a first time offence really why ? I was using no third party tools or nothing the email says disrutpion and this happens two days after my trial period ends but you made sure to get billing for a month
You: so unless im told why, i'll be charging back the money on my credit card as you've stolen it
You: I hesitate to even use the word offence because there was no offence commited in game
SEE Agent Pierre: sorry about the wait here
SEE Agent Pierre: the ban is a decision taken by the GM, in game, and cannot be overturned
You: a ban for what
You: ive done nothing wrong
You: the email says disruption what kind of disruption
SEE Agent Pierre: all I see is that this account has consistently deprived other players of the chance to enjoy combat over an extended period of time.
You: omg
You: it was an empty zone
You: yahse with me in it
You: killing in acertain area
SEE Agent Pierre: unfortunately I cannot discuss this decision
SEE Agent Pierre: Is there anything else I can help you with today?
You: No but i'm disgusted I would get a perma ban for this so called offence
SEE Agent Pierre: Thank you for visiting the Square Enix Europe Support chat line. Take care and have a good day!
SEE Agent Pierre has disconnected.

[Fwahm]

I'm pretty sure Customer Service guys have no way to contact the specific GM that did the banning, so he wouldn't really have any real information for you.

[Byrthnoth]

I wonder if you're more likely to get flagged as pos hacking if you break the z coordinate? I was using clipper for a few months but was hit with a temp ban a few days after I got bored and clipped upwards instead of through things.

Despite the fact that it is sent player "height" coordinate (which you may assume is Z but is actually Y - think first person), the client does not actually use it when rendering character models. So no one can easily detect vertical POS hacking because it looks like you're just standing still until you get to the next player-possible position. This is also true for maintenance mode and such. If you maint mode and run straight from the OP in Beauc to the Hak fishing spot and then turn it off, it will look (to everyone within 50' of you) as if you are running down all the cliffs and your final fall won't appear at all.

Given that they obviously have a strong system for determining what a player's height coordinate should be, it could be autodetection. It isn't like XI has jump, so substantial deviation in the Y axis would really be a red flag.