Salvage Bans v 2.0

[dasva]

These were examples, not theories. You can disprove a very specific set of circumstances I outline in a very specific use-case, but when you don't know which things SE is monitoring or how they're applying the criteria you can't really conclude that they aren't sure the person was botting. I could make more examples all day, but when it comes down to it neither of us can realistically prove which things are and aren't monitored. You want to think they are incapable because it'd help you mentally file your behavior into acceptable and decide that they're at fault for you getting caught cheating. As far as anyone can tell from these ban waves, that's anything but the case..

Indeed that's why I used a specific example to disprove your specific. We could probably go back and forth on that all day so let's just say that maybe they can prove it but you also can't realistically prove they are proving it either (though you seemed to imply it was technically possible). As far as why not really. I am the final arbiter on what I decide is acceptable. However what they accept can and will obviously come into conflict at times and there will be consequences to that... but if they use unacceptable means of determining it they are just as wrong

[EjinCaitsith]

I honestly cannot tell if you are trolling, or if you are legitimately insane. Either way, I'll leave you to your rambling diatribes.

It's clear he has some sort of mental disorder. It's best to just ignore his wall of texts.

Indeed that's why I used a specific example to disprove your specific. We could probably go back and forth on that all day so let's just say that maybe they can prove it but you also can't realistically prove they are proving it either (though you seemed to imply it was technically possible). As far as why not really. I am the final arbiter on what I decide is acceptable. However what they accept can and will obviously come into conflict at times and there will be consequences to that... but if they use unacceptable means of determining it they are just as wrong

My god, give it a rest. You look like a global warming denier at this point screaming "BUT IT'S COLD OUTSIDE RIGHT NOW!" when the majority of the data we have had on this topic disproves you in every way. We get it, you hate SE for banning your botting character and giving you the wrong explanation, you don't need to continue this crusade to bitch every chance you get.

I'm all for having the conversation if SE is right or wrong for enforcing their ToS after so long. It might even surprise some that I also think SE is moronic for banning when support for the game is ending, but it's beyond annoying to see the same fear mongering and denial going on about the legitimate bans with nothing but feels to back it up.

[Spicyryan]

It's clear he has some sort of mental disorder. It's best to just ignore his wall of texts.

Love you too.

[gaira]

so you create an IP, and take some measures to protect it from misuse among your customers. said customers inevitably find a way around the protection and manipulate it in ways unintended by you, the owner. you play catch-up and eventually develop (or enforce) means to detect and punish these customers by denying them service. as far as i know this is a pretty common cycle in business, especially when technology is involved.

i realize that a TOS is just a wall of text in the install to click next on for most people, but it's insanely hypocritical to take such issue against a company protecting its IP from someone who has agreed to play by the rules they set forth in the first place.

as always, amusing thread.

[Sirious]

so you create an IP, and take some measures to protect it from misuse among your customers. said customers inevitably find a way around the protection and manipulate it in ways unintended by you, the owner. you play catch-up and eventually develop (or enforce) means to detect and punish these customers by denying them service. as far as i know this is a pretty common cycle in business, especially when technology is involved.

i realize that a TOS is just a wall of text in the install to click next on for most people, but it's insanely hypocritical to take such issue against a company protecting its IP from someone who has agreed to play by the rules they set forth in the first place.

as always, amusing thread.

The problem is they let it go for so long, now, 2 things happen, 1 anyone who was botting a little, comes back and bots A LOT MORE. For example, I was only doing some light cp botting, to keep my merits up to do high tiers, without having to grind that shit out. Got reported, now I bot 24/7 and have a much larger effect, printing money all day everyday.

Also, like ccl says, "you banned my friends, you lost my sub too", it's a big chain affect. Then what, 10 people that play vanilla all group together and enjoy being the last survivors with their shiney white armor?

[dasva]

My god, give it a rest. You look like a global warming denier at this point screaming "BUT IT'S COLD OUTSIDE RIGHT NOW!" when the majority of the data we have had on this topic disproves you in every way. We get it, you hate SE for banning your botting character and giving you the wrong explanation, you don't need to continue this crusade to bitch every chance you get.

I'm all for having the conversation if SE is right or wrong for enforcing their ToS after so long. It might even surprise some that I also think SE is moronic for banning when support for the game is ending, but it's beyond annoying to see the same fear mongering and denial going on about the legitimate bans with nothing but feels to back it up.

Says the guy that white knights them often enough that you know people would be surprised think it's moronic to ban at this point. Also what proof? If you consider only a small amount of reports to the contrary (which you rationalize with your own feels) and some detection methods that wont always work then sure. But go on keep feeling beyond annoyed

[EjinCaitsith]

Says the guy that white knights them often enough that you know people would be surprised think it's moronic to ban at this point. Also what proof? If you consider only a small amount of reports to the contrary (which you rationalize with your own feels) and some detection methods that wont always work then sure. But go on keep feeling beyond annoyed

Give me one example where I've whiteknighted SE. Every single post I've made in this thread is battling morons like you who are screaming at the top of their lungs that SE is unfairly banning people based on no evidence/investigation/whatever, which obviously is not the case. I've never taken sides on the is cheating right or wrong debate, except to maybe say that if they get banned for something they should know full well would eventually get them banned with enough blatant abuse, they have 0 right to cry rivers about it when they do, best example: you.

[Diavolo]

The problem is they let it go for so long, now, 2 things happen, 1 anyone who was botting a little, comes back and bots A LOT MORE. For example, I was only doing some light cp botting, to keep my merits up to do high tiers, without having to grind that shit out. Got reported, now I bot 24/7 and have a much larger effect, printing money all day everyday.

Also, like ccl says, "you banned my friends, you lost my sub too", it's a big chain affect. Then what, 10 people that play vanilla all group together and enjoy being the last survivors with their shiney white armor?

I find it ironic that the ones defending fair play are the ones called the white knights in this thread. You may be taking the term a bit too literally. As seen at Urban Dictionary, one of the definitions for the term:

"On an internet forum, a person who defends a member who is clearly wrong, usually with the hopes of gaining brownie points with said member. Often seen as negative behavior."

Think about it for a minute.

The Special Task Force page shows the number of bans they've issued since Dec. 2008 and flies in the face of the idea that they've "let it go for so long." They were never great at catching those that break their ToS, this is as true today as it was a decade ago, but asking SE to stop banning players because the population has naturally dwindled in this late stage of the game makes as much sense as asking cheaters to stop cheating. If you're going to do it at least be responsible about it. I've taken some extended breaks in recent years, but the cheating these days makes FFXI look like a ghetto version of its former self, the cheating's everywhere and it's blatant. It's sad, and not so much because they're breaking the ToS, but the method by which they're doing it.

[dasva]

Give me one example where I've whiteknighted SE. Every single post I've made in this thread is battling morons like you who are screaming at the top of their lungs that SE is unfairly banning people based on no evidence/investigation/whatever, which obviously is not the case..

This post right here... but since you assume every bit of it is 100% the god of word you probably can't see it

[Spicyryan]

This post right here... but since you assume every bit of it is 100% the god of word you probably can't see it

*Knocks on your door*

I am here to share with you the good word of Square Enix as described by the prophet Tanaka in the book of Ejin. Do you accept the judgement of Square Enix as your lord and savior?

Spoiler: show

Something something absence of evidence isn't the evidence of absence etc etc

[EjinCaitsith]

This post right here... but since you assume every bit of it is 100% the god of word you probably can't see it

Could you be any more butthurt? Next you'll be going into the math thread and calling everyone there whiteknights for using data and common sense to figure out game mechanics.

If you don't see the overwhelming evidence that SE is not banning without some sort of proof someone is breaking the ToS then you never will. We should just let you and Spicyryan get back to circle jerking each other, which has been the majority of this thread recently.

[Fwahm]

The problem is they let it go for so long, now, 2 things happen, 1 anyone who was botting a little, comes back and bots A LOT MORE. For example, I was only doing some light cp botting, to keep my merits up to do high tiers, without having to grind that shit out. Got reported, now I bot 24/7 and have a much larger effect, printing money all day everyday.

Also, like ccl says, "you banned my friends, you lost my sub too", it's a big chain affect. Then what, 10 people that play vanilla all group together and enjoy being the last survivors with their shiney white armor?

While a theoretical banning of everyone who is botting or using outwardly visible hacks (like speedhacks and the like) would definitely make a big dent in the population, I think you're underestimating how many people play vanilla, or just basic windower (I don't think anyone has been banned just for windower and basic plugins yet, have they?). I mean, it wouldn't exactly be the best idea for business, but there's still a significant number of people who don't play on PC, or play on PC and don't use any of the more intrusive plugins and addons (or any plugins or addons at all).

[Spicyryan]

Could you be any more butthurt? Next you'll be going into the math thread and calling everyone there whiteknights for using data and common sense to figure out game mechanics.

If you don't see the overwhelming evidence that SE is not banning without some sort of proof someone is breaking the ToS then you never will. We should just let you and Spicyryan get back to circle jerking each other, which has been the majority of this thread recently.

Data would be based in some sort of fact. We are just speculating here based on a loose collection of unbalanced reports.

Don't be ashamed of being a white knight for SE. It just means you believe in their rules and probably a few other things
I mean obviously there is no collateral damage from dropping ban bombs. Right?

I haven't even been quoting or talking to Dasva. Honestly I have been reading everyone posts except for Dasva's. But, sure by all means just start lobbing some more bullshit into the mix. Mental issues, circle jerks, what is next? Man, I wish I could be as cool as you.

[dasva]

Could you be any more butthurt? Next you'll be going into the math thread and calling everyone there whiteknights for using data and common sense to figure out game mechanics.

If you don't see the overwhelming evidence that SE is not banning without some sort of proof someone is breaking the ToS then you never will. We should just let you and Spicyryan get back to circle jerking each other, which has been the majority of this thread recently.

Psh you don't hurt my butt. If anything I find you amusing. I find it particularly amusing that the guy that has denied every report to the contrary calling me like a climate change denier. But I apparently annoy the hell out of you which at this point is also amusing. See the thing about your example is the people in the mathy parts thread when presented with contrary data generally don't rationalize it away using or flat out deny it like you have been. They do further testing to figure it out. Plus technically pretty much everything in there was obtained breaking the ToS and/or the whole backward engineering mechanics.

No we know that if it does happening it's rather rare given the number of reports. But Oh man that statement. That's just like talking to someone who was trying to convince you that flying man in the sky is real. Oh yeah there is "proof" all around. I "see" him. Contrary evidence? Must be trolls and clerical errors and lions oh my. But having fun imagining that circle jerk I don't know what he looks like in real (I know so shallow of me) but that might be exciting to some

[Spicyryan]

Oh man that statement. That's just like talking to someone who was trying to convince you that flying man in the sky is real. Oh yeah there is "proof" all around. I "see" him. Contrary evidence? Must be trolls and clerical errors and lions oh my. But having fun imagining that circle jerk I don't know what he looks like in real (I know so shallow of me) but that might be exciting to some

Since we are playing a round of Oreo (circle jerk game for you plebs) together Das, I will add on.

It is like watching a bunch of science haters like the WBC using cell phones.

Breaking the ToS is wrong! Something something ban. Then they go and use FFXIAH.com, post their gearswap, and force update their Guildwork.

[Brill Weave]

I'm rapidly beginning to dislike this thread.

[bechyni]

You got banned get over it. Either start a new character, buy one, or move on with your life. No on really cares what you did, why you did it, how you didn't do it, or anything of the matter. Just shut the fuck up already.

[Spicyryan]

I'm rapidly beginning to dislike this thread.

It is pretty fucked up, and has rapidly descended into the abyss.

[shepardG]

Just as planned
muhahhHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAAHA


goodnight sweet prince, 11 years was a good run.

[Spicyryan]

Just as planned
muhahhHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAAHA


goodnight sweet prince, 11 years was a good run.

Psh, people stay married for longer, and clearly XI is superior to that.