Salvage Bans v 2.0

[Draylo]

That guy is really stuck up and spoiled with all the free to play WoW clones over the years. He bounces back and forth between them all never being fulfilled. Maybe you just don't realize how FFXI does it might just be part of its gameplay, working hard for a spell etc. Yes I would suggest job changing or shouting to see if people already have the spell on hand or have a chance at doing the content (or sending tells to ppl shouting for the content it drops from.) This game has a job change system for a reason. You put it well yourself though, its too late for it to change its ways as we already know its fate. Maybe the mobile version will please you.

[arus2001]

I'm sorry the Stockholm's has enamored you to bad design.

[Celebrindor]

The idea of preventing low end sales on the AH is ridiculous. You can't legislate stupid, in real life or a game, nor should you. I am honestly having a hard time wrapping my head around the argument for "forced" pricing, which is what you're calling for.

[Draylo]

I'm sorry the Stockholm's has enamored you to bad design.

Right, bad design that people played for years and years. Yet you hop between all the flavor of the month MMOs, ever think you are the one with the issue when I still play a game I enjoy? Why can't it just be a unique design decision?

[arus2001]

The idea does nothing to force anyone to list at a specific price. The intention is to make sure items get into the hands of people who actually need them, not people who just need gil. Shit, do you think people would be botting low-sale items if ilvl mobs dropped 2k per kill without factoring NPCables? The economy's a mess for a number of reasons, even if some of those do actually tie into job progression as tangentially demonstrated through mages.

[Draylo]

How is the economy a mess? I think that needs some explaining. It's easy to make gil and easy to spend it on stuff you want, how doesn't it work?

[Celebrindor]

If you place a minimum price something can be listed on the AH for, what would you call that? In my book, that's price fixing.

[arus2001]

Right, bad design that people played for years and years.

Despite your fondness for trying to make me a pinata, how mages have progressed in XI is not suddenly a new issue. Back in the day it would be spells like Phalanx, Erase, Refresh, Utsu: Ni, Stonega II, and so on. While melees could just use the AH as a revolving door of gear, only needing to skill up and level to get the next WS/JA, mages had to farm, farm, farm, or pray they got lucky in a BC. Fucking continue mocking other MMOs until you jizz in your pants, but I will 100% call this bad design when you not only see the elimination of things like skilling up, but abilities simply being acquired upon level. Some tried the whole "Visit a skill trainer!" thing, but even that's going away. Nevermind the fact you didn't have to spend a month of play just to train a skill.

Yet you hop between all the flavor of the month MMOs.

And in every singe one you'll find people demanding, "Make the game like <their first MMO love>!" just to see evolution slowed by pandering to nostalgia. We're at the point where the devs of today were also brought up on the games of yesteryear, where if they also succumb to such nonsense, you get a litany of inconveniences like Wildstar tried to pride itself on, only to flop miserably. You'll see it in the XIV section when it comes to flying mounts. There's some good evidence on how it hurt WoW, why they dropped it, and how putting it in XIV could do similar harm. You'll still have those that gotta have it, though, and will probably have a bitch fit if SE winds up following in WoW's footsteps in their next expansion. Or take Rift being bold enough to remove falling damage. Some would say it made exploration more interesting. Others would bemoan it removed a sense of danger from the world even though an accidental 5s fall pretty much turned into a 2 minute corpse run with later soul heal fees tacked on in farming gold.

ever think you are the one with the issue when I still play a game I enjoy? Why can't it just be a unique design decision?

Do I think I have issues? Duh? It's why they're brought up. So, tell me, how would a GEO having access to their spells the moment they're of level hurt you? Being realistic, how does ANYTHING you've latched onto for attacking me over actually hurt you. What I want are games with a solid foundation that don't just run off into one direction like raiding or PvP at the expense of all else. You can't go hypocritical on telling me to just accept what you like while asserting what I like has no place. You're stuck in your FFXI bubble and that's blinded you to the issues of others, or at the very least, turned you defensive because you want to sling the word "spoiled" around like you're the more enlightened player here and we're just not totally getting the greatness, man.

At least Mal was sensible enough to sarcastically acknowledge the bullshit of the process buying from NPCs. You? We must be doing it wrong.

[arus2001]

If you place a minimum price something can be listed on the AH for, what would you call that? In my book, that's price fixing.

I'm not placing any minimum price? Yes, there is the vendor minimum if that is even set, but again, the point is for items to be exchanged to be used, not destroyed for easy gil. The 1m/900k hypothetical I used was more a supply/demand example without NPCing directly being a factor.

[Draylo]

Despite your fondness for trying to make me a pinata, how mages have progressed in XI is not suddenly a new issue. Back in the day it would be spells like Phalanx, Erase, Refresh, Utsu: Ni, Stonega II, and so on. While melees could just use the AH as a revolving door of gear, only needing to skill up and level to get the next WS/JA, mages had to farm, farm, farm, or pray they got lucky in a BC. Fucking continue mocking other MMOs until you jizz in your pants, but I will 100% call this bad design when you not only see the elimination of things like skilling up, but abilities simply being acquired upon level. Some tried the whole "Visit a skill trainer!" thing, but even that's going away. Nevermind the fact you didn't have to spend a month of play just to train a skill.

You are suggesting that what the majority likes is the best way. It's debatable in my eyes, if that's the case we should all be playing candy crush only. Eventually those melee had to level mages and likewise for mages going melee, it extended certain contents lifespan that provided those spells like legion w/meteor and arise and BCNMs in the past. It was a unique design choice and maybe people spammed those in hopes of getting those scrolls for use or if they never played mages they could sell them for cash which stimulated the market. It isn't simply "wahh the DD have it so easy" and more like a design choice that bolstered other areas of the game.

And in every singe one you'll find people demanding, "Make the game like <their first MMO love>!" just to see evolution slowed by pandering to nostalgia. We're at the point where the devs of today were also brought up on the games of yesteryear, where if they also succumb to such nonsense, you get a litany of inconveniences like Wildstar tried to pride itself on, only to flop miserably. You'll see it in the XIV section when it comes to flying mounts. There's some good evidence on how it hurt WoW, why they dropped it, and how putting it in XIV could do similar harm. You'll still have those that gotta have it, though, and will probably have a bitch fit if SE winds up following in WoW's footsteps in their next expansion. Or take Rift being bold enough to remove falling damage. Some would say it made exploration more interesting. Others would bemoan it removed a sense of danger from the world even though an accidental 5s fall pretty much turned into a 2 minute corpse run with later soul heal fees tacked on in farming gold.

Again goes back to the idea of if its popular it must be the best choice. Each took a different approach to making their game different and unique, just because it doesn't fit into the mold doesn't make it inherently a bad choice.

Do I think I have issues? Duh? It's why they're brought up. So, tell me, how would a GEO having access to their spells the moment they're of level hurt you? Being realistic, how does ANYTHING you've latched onto for attacking me over actually hurt you. What I want are games with a solid foundation that don't just run off into one direction like raiding or PvP at the expense of all else. You can't go hypocritical on telling me to just accept what you like while asserting what I like has no place. You're stuck in your FFXI bubble and that's blinded you to the issues of others, or at the very least, turned you defensive because you want to sling the word "spoiled" around like you're the more enlightened player here and we're just not totally getting the greatness, man.

At least Mal was sensible enough to sarcastically acknowledge the bullshit of the process buying from NPCs. You? We must be doing it wrong.

Do you just want clones of WoW or whatever your best interpretation of a model MMO is? All of them should be unified with nothing different so it can be the best in YOUR eyes? All you have are opinions, what you like doesn't mean it is the best option. It becomes a choice of, do they go with what is the most popular option and please the most people or do they try to be unique and have their game stand out in a way. If FFXI was just like every other MMO with no different choices, would it have lasted as long? Will any of the current WoW clones make it as long as XI did with their mechanics that you praise? I don't think its that simple but neither of our opinions even matter here.

[dasva]

Leave the free market alone. What did it every do to you

[Limlight]

christ, does arus ever stop with the bitching and everyone else is wrong and i'm the only one who see's the truth bs?

[NynJa]

The idea does nothing to force anyone to list at a specific price. The intention is to make sure items get into the hands of people who actually need them, not people who just need gil. Shit, do you think people would be botting low-sale items if ilvl mobs dropped 2k per kill without factoring NPCables? The economy's a mess for a number of reasons, even if some of those do actually tie into job progression as tangentially demonstrated through mages.

This happens in the real world tho. At my store, i sell a bunch of consoles to people on loyalty points events so they get 20-40% of the cost back in store points, then they sell the merch online.

How about Amiibos? I cant find Meta Knight anywhere other than online at 3-4x markup.

How about event tickets? What do you think scalpers are?

[arus2001]

If you want to take the hipster approach of popularity equating to bad, then of course, we'll never have a good game. Citing Candy Crush is just a lame ass strawman as its an entirely different genre, even though CC mechanics could fit in as a mini-game in some manner since MMOs better strive to be a world. I make no secret about not appealing to the ego-centric aspect of gaming, however, and with that comes the belief that how one chooses to play should eventually reflect "they're really good at what they like to do" at the end of the road. Right now, MMOs are more about caste systems. It's not about not wanting to work for things. It's about having fun while working toward the things you want and that want not being out of reach for reasons outside the player's control. You won't see me saying raiding shouldn't exist or that voluntary PvP shouldn't be a thing. Yet, the reality is equipment crafting in MMOs is pretty much dead due to fear of RMT. Those that prefer solo-to-trio activities will almost always be stuck at some arbitrarily weaker tier no matter how much they do what they like.

Getting any more specific will pretty much be an MMO-by-MMO basis, but I will say if you're someone who likes raid content (which I know you do, or at least the manpower/implied challenge), the current MMO sphere is pretty much your playground. Some too easily confuse getting to a level cap or running some dungeons via a LFG tool as a casual's paradise, but the trick is to look past that and see what goals remain after. That pool gets way more shallow.

christ, does arus ever stop with the bitching and everyone else is wrong and i'm the only one who see's the truth bs?

If, by everyone, you mean Draylo and the occasional low-post "Abyssea killed FFXI!" types, then sure, I guess there are lots of people who aren't seeing the light.

[geno3302]

what does all of this have to do with salvage bans? Can we change the title or move the non ban stuff to another thread?

[arus2001]

At some point it just kind of devolved into the morality of exploitation, be it for player convenience or just to spite SE. AH botting/market manipulation fits under the exploiting umbrella and trying to elaborate why just spiraled into how the game progressed over time, worked, and didn't. I was honestly content just sticking to AH talk, but someone picked a fight.

And just because...

This happens in the real world tho.

We really shouldn't striving to bring the shittiness of RL into our games, try as some might.

[gaira]

made a throwaway account to check out what rhapsodies was about, 11 days in got a 3 day ban with no prior warning. only used tako aside from general windower things. was completely alone in a zone xping when a message popped and force disconnected me.

so nothing new in terms of information, but it does seem like they finally have some form of automated system to detect and punish at least speed hacks.

[Eph]

How fast were you going?

[gaira]

100% alone (flee), 0% around anyone else.

[Gaztastic]

Using any of the position hacking tools? Was this account registered on the same credit card as another that may have been banned in the past?