Salvage Bans v 2.0

[Byrthnoth]

Is 100% with Tako actually +60% (Flee speed)?

[Kari]

Friend of mine also got temped yesterday morning. Not sure what speed he was running at, but it was less than me. We just resubbed for fun with Rhapsodies til Heavensward, so this sucks a bit.
I had Tako on 200%/0% and didn't get touched, he got hit for less. (Speedchecker addon noticed it as 126% and 1% speed, I guess Tako is adding +1% for whatever reason?)

I have no idea what they are banning for, really. I play waaaaay more than him, and whenever I'm outside of auto-disable I'm zipping around. I zipped for about 3 hours one night in Cirdas just killing things. Did a bunch of Salvage, some Assaults, some SKirmish. He's done a bit of Salvage and job point grinding, but that's about it. At the time he got temped, I was logged into him with Tako disabled, just bringing him to Skirmish for extra loot. He got kicked off at some point while both of my accounts were still zipping.

So yeah, pretty lost. Why did he get banned, but I didn't? I seriously can't imagine anyone would have reported either of us, but especially not him over me. I've had a temp before so I'd probably be perma'd now. I stopped using Tako entirely now, I'd like to keep my account until at least the end of Rhapsodies.

[Inference]

I got hit yesterday with a perma(I had a prior offense for speed hacking like 10 years ago). Only used Tako in Salvage/Skrimish/Nyzul Tokens. Point being you definitely don't have to be reported for it and there's either some kind of global recognition, or they are only monitoring certain zones. First two make most sense given Neo-Nyzul history and recent Salvage issues they've been having, but I also haven't done either of those in almost two weeks so they definitely took their time with it.

[Draylo]

I think its everywhere now, I would recommend nobody use those anymore if you care at all. I had a friend get temp'd a couple weeks ago for just 12% but they also POS hacked, so they are somehow doing auto-detection.

[NynJa]

I think its everywhere now, I would recommend nobody use those anymore if you care at all. I had a friend get temp'd a couple weeks ago for just 12% but they also POS hacked, so they are somehow doing auto-detection.

Or they just werent as careful as they thought, or they were doing more than they told you.

[Draylo]

Or they have auto-detection lol

[NynJa]

So they can autodetect 12% movement speed? This is the same game that erroneously flagged people for flee hacking because they hit a lag spike, yet now they can auto-detect 12% flawlessly?

[Draylo]

Do you not realize how many people are coming forth with suspension/bans now compared to the past? Obviously they are doing shit now when in the past they weren't. I'm more inclined to say the auto-detection found the POS warping though from tako.

[NynJa]

Do you not realize how many people are coming forth with suspension/bans now compared to the past? Obviously they are doing shit now when in the past they weren't. I'm more inclined to say the auto-detection found the POS warping though from tako.

Yeah, probably monitoring the hotspots (Salvage) for people pulling that shit.

Believe what you want to believe buddy because I dont believe this game, with its archaic network code, can detect 12% without a slew of false positives, considering this same network code was generating false positives on people going 60% way back when. And I highly doubt SE fine tuned the network code, considering there are a bunch of more glaring gameplay issues they've said "deal with it" to.


Didnt SE tell us back in 05 or whatever that they added an auto-detection feature? Or was it forced out when people were complaining about false bans on forums?

[Lolwutt]

don't need any network code really, outgoing packet is sent in fixed intervals and you can measure the difference between 2 consecutive ones.. some filtering of matching sequence ids and gaps in communication and it wouldn't be hard to safely detect as little as 3-4% when a player is running in a straight line or on autorun

doesn't mean they did it, but you're a fool if you think it's anything particularly difficult to implement

[NynJa]

don't need any network code really, outgoing packet is sent in fixed intervals and you can measure the difference between 2 consecutive ones.. some filtering of matching sequence ids and gaps in communication and it wouldn't be hard to safely detect as little as 3-4% when a player is running in a straight line or on autorun

doesn't mean they did it, but you're a fool if you think it's anything particularly difficult to implement

Do you remember what game you're talking about?!? LOL

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/105...for-the-Undead
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/390...rka-Flee-Speed
Sneak Attack from all directions?
Joining Unity would destroy your linkshells?

These were just the ones off the top of my head. I probably missed a lot more obvious ones. Lets not forget people using ASE when the gobbie chests first came out to just keep getting chest items by killing the bats. Or the fact you could "freespawn" items from provenance chests n shit. Or the fact the server trusts whatever the client offers it...a "feature" they repeated in XIV with the crafting exploit.

[FNH]

I do not think it is auto-detect. I never stopped using cupper/tako. Run at 300%, used the warp function on tako for a few assaults(even wound up on the wrong map lol), used reposition until that broke, and used maintenance to get through doors. I have not been tagged, yet. What I don't do is run as soon as I get into a zone where people might be because detection can lag. I don't speed through a zone faster than it should take(except salvage 10-15 minutes on bst) because there does seem to be auto-detect on the zone lines again. I don't bot exp anymore while not at my computer(I do miss those 20 hr+ sessions while sleeping/working), nor do I speed hack while exping.

[vivbiibasjiu]

Interesting how certain notorious botters on this very thread have yet to be banned. I'm sure they've gotten their fair share of reports

[NynJa]

Interesting how certain notorious botters on this very thread have yet to be banned. I'm sure they've gotten their fair share of reports

Or maybe, just maybe, they're not botting? If SE can detect a 12% fleehacker, surely SE can detect someone botting for hours on end, right?

[vivbiibasjiu]

Or maybe, just maybe, they're not botting? If SE can detect a 12% fleehacker, surely SE can detect someone botting for hours on end, right?

They wouldn't be a "notorious botter" if they weren't botting, now would they?

[Hoshiku]

It's the 'if you do stuff better than me you must be a bot' mentality. My vote also is for some sort of automated detection system, since it's not always picking up people that are speeding maybe it's the zoneline thing?

[NynJa]

They wouldn't be a "notorious botter" if they weren't botting, now would they?

Maybe theyre only "Notorious" in your head? Unless you think SE is tagging someone for going at 12% and leaving a "notorious botter" scott free?

[FNH]

Interesting how certain notorious botters on this very thread have yet to be banned. I'm sure they've gotten their fair share of reports

Like who?

[Saevel]

Yeah, probably monitoring the hotspots (Salvage) for people pulling that shit.

Believe what you want to believe buddy because I dont believe this game, with its archaic network code, can detect 12% without a slew of false positives, considering this same network code was generating false positives on people going 60% way back when. And I highly doubt SE fine tuned the network code, considering there are a bunch of more glaring gameplay issues they've said "deal with it" to.


Didnt SE tell us back in 05 or whatever that they added an auto-detection feature? Or was it forced out when people were complaining about false bans on forums?

SE added a new section, the Special Task Force (STF) who's job it was to detect and get rid of RMT. They are the folks who do monthly mass bannings and to assist them they build a special auto-banning application. This application is separate from the FFXI servers.

Doing auto-detect would be impossible without utilizing a sh!t ton of CPU cycles which would cause massive lag. You can't just compare two packets and check for differences, the internet is too random and unpredictable for that to be a reliable method. Instead you'd have to actively run code that records and analyses the positional update history of each character and then compares it to a valid movement model, if the check comes back valid then all is well, if invalid then it can send a message to the central POL servers to initiate a ban or flag the account for further review. Doing this on one connection, or even a dozen connections isn't a big deal, constantly doing it on hundreds of connections on the other hand becomes atrociously taxing server side. For this reason I highly doubt SE is running active detection, they are too cheap to invest the amount of money required for server upgrades to provide for this functionality.

What's likely happening is people are either doing dumb sh!t like POS hacking in the wrong places, which is incredibly easy to check because you don't need to analyze movement history, or running an auto-bot in a visible place and getting reported. Something the STF is checking for is large gil trades and having an account continuously logged in an abnormal amount of time, which seems to be more then a day or two. The account logged in part wont' immediately nail you, but it'll have your account flagged for further review which might cause them to catch something else or think your an RMT.

[vivbiibasjiu]

Maybe theyre only "Notorious" in your head? Unless you think SE is tagging someone for going at 12% and leaving a "notorious botter" scott free?

It's in my head when they self-admit to botting on every account they own? I'm not naming names, use your head