FFXIV 3.0 : Heavensward - Expansion Information and Discussion

[Deuce]

I hate how he's afraid of hybrid classes but it makes sense. Skill Trees though, especially with how people generally play in this game as is in DEFINED roles....is going to be the most magnificent train wreck ever witnessed or a beautiful thing.

Obviously we won't be getting skill trees with the expansion, but what we do get from 50-60 should be an example of what they're willing to try and/or do. If we only get a few skills/CDs total per class I'd be pretty disappointed, but it's to be expected. At this point there seems to be a major disconnect between what the devs believe "hardcore" is and what players actually demand.

Yoshida has stated in the past that Heavensward is going to be more "hardcore", less forgiving than the trial that was 2.0, but we won't know until we actually get to play it. Similar to all the previous patches there are plenty of players who are expecting some significant changes, more difficult enemies, greater variety in stats and unique abilities, a reason for elemental resistance materia existing, and so on. Unfortunately, I don't believe we'll be getting much of any of this, except for possibly the first. The live letter already told us that they're sticking with their tomestone system and are even adding it to crafting in a vain attempt to reduce some of the player monopolies at the top. We haven't been shown any actual gameplay with the expansion being almost 2 months away at this point that would demonstrate new abilities or systems they've put in place. Other than one of 9 open world zones, which include Ishgard and Dravania, we've been shown practically nothing of value with regard to the expansion. Admittedly, I was impressed at the size of the zone they showed off, but it has me worried if all they're willing to show is a single zone.

I think everyone would point out they're holding off on showing material because of the time until the expansion release and the fact that it follows soon after E3, but the lack of any tangible information at this point is a sign to me that the expansion will fall below many players' expectations.

[arus2001]

Yeah, the tricky thing about hybrids is if they're too good at something, specialists get their knickers in a knot. Unfortunately, the "hardcore" base he spoke of in the interview has a tendency to not tolerate mediocrity, which is where a "balanced" hybrid is most likely to lie. Thus, a job/class no one would seriously play when push comes to shove. Realistically, every job should probably get the hybrid treatment to some degree with modes that can activate outside of battle. Allowing it in-combat is something I feel would be disastrous and have the effect of significantly straining particular jobs (most likely support-types). Stances may serve as a present in-combat toggle, but I think most would agree they don't magically turn PLD into a monster DPS and such. Overall, when/if this is accomplished, the game's job pool would basically double. Let's just hope they get a better handle on inventory things and make it so you can decently gear more than 1-2 jobs per patch cycle.

Otherwise, if he meant what I think he did about MMOs pandering more to the hardcore of late, then I'd agree. I know it's no uncommon to see complaints that the hardcore don't have enough to do or that what they do get isn't up to their own personal standard(s), but my take on the pandering is that many, many, many MMOs these days are dungeon/raid-centric, and with that all the equipment/progression-related drama that follows in who "deserves" what or why crafting must suck. Vanity and fluff activities only really go so far here, and just as Deuce expressed some concern about minimal meat in the 3.0 presentation thus far, I'm also of the mind (and relatively disappointed about it) that what 2.0+ established isn't going to be changing in any major way with respect to progression and not-raiding. And the brunt of that is simply not wanting to religiously schedule my life around a game when I could actually log on (and not have to worry about caps, allowances, lockouts, etc.). So, in that regard, I'm already anathema to the more hardcore players, but such has been the standard for years now. Which is also why I tend to assert the hardcores get more than they may be willing to admit, even if the "more" is "beneath them" to do.

[Lucavi]

I hate how he's afraid of hybrid classes but it makes sense. Skill Trees though, especially with how people generally play in this game as is in DEFINED roles....is going to be the most magnificent train wreck ever witnessed or a beautiful thing.

I understand it and he's right. You can't do a hybrid "jack of all" in a game that forces so many HP and DPS checks. Something's got to give. If the hybrid doesn't heal or DPS high enough to make the checks, they're useless, and if they do, then they've supplanted another job and people will bring nothing but them. There hasn't been a game yet that's focused so intensely on "checks" during boss fights that had a working hybrid class structure. Rift was the closest one I can think of, but even then, people stuck to "working" specs that optimized either damage or healing, so its all the same.

[Spider-Dan]

Hybrid tank+dps or hybrid dps+heal is always useful for content below the top tier of difficulty.

[Niiro]

Quasi-related to the issue: I dislike that DPS have absolutely no role flexibility.

Tanks can tank, tanks can also DPS.

Healers can heal, healers can also DPS.

DPS can DPS, but they cannot tank or heal in any meaningful capacity whatsoever.

SMN with Titan is the only exception.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Quasi-related to the issue: I dislike that DPS have absolutely no role flexibility.

Tanks can tank, tanks can also DPS.

Healers can heal, healers can also DPS.

DPS can DPS, but they cannot tank or heal in any meaningful capacity whatsoever.

SMN with Titan is the only exception.

This is something I want to see as skill trees or something. Titan is pretty horrible at tanking anything meaningful, but speccing into say tank SMN for gimmicks and shits might be fun. Tank MNK, (more) DPS WAR, idk Healer BRD?

While I wouldn't want them to try and shoehorn a 2nd job for everyone ala SMN/SCH at this point, I think that we need more "2 roles from 1 coin" ideology.

[SamanosukeShiva]

nin tank inc

[Lucavi]

Hybrid tank+dps or hybrid dps+heal is always useful for content below the top tier of difficulty.

Mmm... true... but aren't we in a world where people complain at the drop of a hat? Can you imagine the QQ around a "useless" job?

[Adajer]

Quasi-related to the issue: I dislike that DPS have absolutely no role flexibility.

Tanks can tank, tanks can also DPS.

Healers can heal, healers can also DPS.

DPS can DPS, but they cannot tank or heal in any meaningful capacity whatsoever.

SMN with Titan is the only exception.

I have done quite a bit of tanking and off tanking on my drg. Sometimes situational, sometimes on purpose.

I have done OT for titan EX on purpose. I have MT titan EX when only tank died. I MT'd WoD on drg as well.

Only threat generator is my dps, but once i get enough in I can lock down threat.

[Elcura]

Hybrid tank+dps or hybrid dps+heal is always useful for content below the top tier of difficulty.

Yeah, because that's what people want when they pick a job they like to level, gear and focus on. Something that is subpar. Jesus.

Mmm... true... but aren't we in a world where people complain at the drop of a hat? Can you imagine the QQ around a "useless" job?

I mean...if it was DRK or WAR or DRG or hell, any job you like. Just pick a job, make it useless and see how that feels (hypothetically, I don't expect any level of empathy on forums).

[Niiro]

I have done quite a bit of tanking and off tanking on my drg. Sometimes situational, sometimes on purpose.

I have done OT for titan EX on purpose. I have MT titan EX when only tank died. I MT'd WoD on drg as well.

Only threat generator is my dps, but once i get enough in I can lock down threat.

Outgearing old/easy content is not tanking.

You were only "tanking" WoD because there wasn't a DPS worth a shit to take hate from you and your healers were responsive enough to keep you alive.

[Gokulo]

Dx9/11 comparison:
http://jp.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/

Spoiler: show

http://jp.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blo...P_DirectX9.jpg
http://jp.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blo..._DirectX11.jpg

[Gulkeeva]

Adds nice details to the shadows and reflections on stuff. Curious if they will go for DX12 at some point considering the obscene performance benefits though, which is much bigger than DX10->11

[Spider-Dan]

Mmm... true... but aren't we in a world where people complain at the drop of a hat? Can you imagine the QQ around a "useless" job?

Classes already exist and would be perfect for this, if only SE were not actively trying to keep people from using them.

Yeah, because that's what people want when they pick a job they like to level, gear and focus on. Something that is subpar. Jesus.

I am not surprised that you fail to grasp this.

Allowing a tank job to temporarily trade away tanking prowess for DPS has NOTHING to do with being "subpar." You don't need 11000 HP or 20% damage reduction to tank WoD, but more DPS = faster runs. Similarly, giving casters the ability to do limited healing (a la RDM) for sub-top-tier content would mean that not only are you reducing waits for healers, but you're optimizing your group for what you need.

The one stat that you can effectively never have too much of is DPS. If a given event doesn't need max tanking or max healing, why wouldn't you want more damage out of those slots?

[Lucavi]

Classes already exist and would be perfect for this, if only SE were not actively trying to keep people from using them.

Give me more than that. I'm geniunely curious. Perhaps its just my narrow perspective on this, but how would classes help? How would anything except total balance (which is boring in a sense, but keep reading) across all jobs/classes help in a world where you absolutely MUST hit DPS/HP checks? If some class/job falls short, people cry and ostracize the hell out of the class/job. This happened in XI even without DPS/HP checks. This happened simply because of the nature of humanity itself.

Dig a little deeper and provide something.

[Hiryo]

I didn't play 1.0, but people talk about how you can make all kinds of weird combinations across classes. Did that game have DPS/HP checks? If so, were there certain xclass abilities that didnt perform in boss fights like they did in less important areas?

[Elcura]

I am not surprised that you fail to grasp this.

Allowing a tank job to temporarily trade away tanking prowess for DPS has NOTHING to do with being "subpar." You don't need 11000 HP or 20% damage reduction to tank WoD, but more DPS = faster runs. Similarly, giving casters the ability to do limited healing (a la RDM) for sub-top-tier content would mean that not only are you reducing waits for healers, but you're optimizing your group for what you need.

The one stat that you can effectively never have too much of is DPS. If a given event doesn't need max tanking or max healing, why wouldn't you want more damage out of those slots?

I didn't fail to grasp anything, you, as usual, fail to read/comprehend. I even wonder why you frequent a forum when reading isn't your strongest skill? Oh well, moving on.

The point is, why would you pick and focus on a job that only has worth in fights that aren't actually that difficult? You could bring anything to these events, so why make a job that specialises in easy content and not a job that...oh I dunno (and I'm going to bold this) can do ALL content.

Seriously, stop being retarded.

[Wulfgang]

I didn't play 1.0, but people talk about how you can make all kinds of weird combinations across classes. Did that game have DPS/HP checks? If so, were there certain xclass abilities that didnt perform in boss fights like they did in less important areas?

1.0 was just a mess; I would prefer to not even reference it anymore.

[Kaslo]

1.0 was just a mess; I would prefer to not even reference it anymore.

but, (insert some random nostalgia about 1.23)

[Niiro]

Yes, there were DPS checks.

The dungeons that dropped darklight gear gave a certain # of chests at the end depending on certain conditions met, iirc at least one of them was dependent solely upon completion time (>15 or 20 mins, I forget).