FFXIV 3.0 : Heavensward - Expansion Information and Discussion

[Prothescar]

@karb

I'm not doing either of those things, in fact ive pointed out positives and negatives of both games here, but let's call a spade a spade. In xi's life, of which i played for the better part of 12 years, there really weren't any engaging fights or mechanics. They were all just as 1 input 1 ouput as you see in xiv, albeit more exploitable. Saying anything less is just undue gratification due to nostalgia. I'll remind you that you brought up the comparison, not me, so don't try to scapegoat. Xi is no better at this. It never was. Period.

Xiv is just more focused on mechanics and the player's reaction to them than randomization of said mechanics (which... I can't really think of any situation where absolute randomization would make anything better. Theres a reason people stunlock and zerg everything in xi). A perfect solution would undoubtedly be what I explained earlier. Any more or less and too many other issues would surface.

[Jem]

I still maintain that the best event/mechanics XI implemented was original salvage. Once they added the starting chest, that event was great. And I think all the people I play XIV with now who were in my XI salvage group would also agree.

I'm also one of few who liked Neo-Nyzul but that's a slippery slope as whilst we didn't use exploits for it, the majority obviously did. And if people feel the need to do that, the game design can't be as good as i thought.


The majority of XI fights were about finding ways to ignore mechanics really unless you were low manning. A lot of fights devolved into 'If we kill it fast enough / stunlock it, we don't have to deal with X, Y, Z.'

[Prothescar]

Yeah. Better mechanics outside of the boss fights similar to salvage or nyzul would definitely be nice. As it stands now we have boss gauntlets with occasional trash that doesn't matter (except for t2 like you said earlier)

I'm hoping Alexander lives up to his legacy and is more like salvage than coil

[Akiyama]

I'm not doing either of those things, in fact ive pointed out positives and negatives of both games here, but let's call a spade a spade. In xi's life, of which i played for the better part of 12 years, there really weren't any engaging fights or mechanics. They were all just as 1 input 1 ouput as you see in xiv, albeit more exploitable. Saying anything less is just undue gratification due to nostalgia. I'll remind you that you brought up the comparison, not me, so don't try to scapegoat. Xi is no better at this. It never was. Period.

Xiv is just more focused on mechanics and the player's reaction to them than randomization of said mechanics (which... I can't really think of any situation where absolute randomization would make anything better. Theres a reason people stunlock and zerg everything in xi). A perfect solution would undoubtedly be what I explained earlier. Any more or less and too many other issues would surface.

Wasn't referencing you in particular, but just the subject as a whole. I feel like while FFXI and FFXIV are both Final Fantasies, they're also completely different games in terms of playstyle, so comparing gameplay between the two just feel super apples and oranges.

and I wasn't comparing XI and XIV, was just using an example of what a lot of fights, at least early on before the introduction of different classes/abilities/gear. I'm not trying to scapegoat. Pls stop.

[Elcura]

People talking about XI and I've gone this long without saying it sucks. But really, if you want to look at more randomised encounters you just need to look at 1.0. There was a mix of randomness and scripted moves, the original Ifrit Ex was frustrating as shit because it could just spam eruption then dash without ever giving you an opportunity to DPS without dying.

I'm just imagining what Bahamut would be like if they randomized his attacks. Either they wouldn't be as potent (so you could potentially ignore them) or they would be just as potent and you'd have to sacrifice DPS because he wants to do Megaflare/Earthshakers 3 times in a row. It doesn't matter if it's jump-rope or totally random, a fun fight is a fun fight. But generally with random you gotta under tune the fight and with script you gotta over tune it.

Wasn't referencing you in particular, but just the subject as a whole. I feel like while FFXI and FFXIV are both Final Fantasies, they're also completely different games in terms of playstyle, so comparing gameplay between the two just feel super apples and oranges.

and I wasn't comparing XI and XIV, was just using an example of what a lot of fights, at least early on before the introduction of different classes/abilities/gear. I'm not trying to scapegoat. Pls stop.

They're completely different, but that won't stop people from 'tarding out because IT WAS SE'S FIRST MMO THO and the nostalgia is strong.

[Prothescar]

Yup. It would suck dicks. Like I said, sets of randomized patterns would make the most sense since it wouldn't unshackle the mob but would open up more reactive gameplay. Anyway im at work now so im done replying for a while.

[Eldelphia]

I must admit I would like them to change things up a bit in XIV. In XI you felt like you could impact the fight, whereas in XIV you just react.

Some of that is down to the fact that the enfeebles we stick on Bosses (if not resisted outright) have negligible effect. We can't paralyze moves, slow barely makes a difference, same with blind. We can't employ a strategy to stop most things, the only ability we have which makes a notable difference is stun and even that's heavily restricted.

There were of course scripted moves in FFXI, I just feel as if we have less ways to impact fights in XIV and that makes some of them tedious. Basically coming from XI (and 3-4 other MMOs I've played to a lesser extent) I don't like the fact that we can't get creative. All we can do is wait til we outgear an instance and then try messing around with different setups.

[Wulfgang]

You got me thinking of Mario party now. You remember the game! Jump that flaming rope OR ELSE!

Reminds me of the jump/duck game in Twisted System

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51...stedSystem.jpg

[Gulkeeva]

Well FFXIV does allot for "some" creativity, and or trying something different... once you get enough gear. Being barely geared for a instance, it pretty much will require for people to dodge etc etc, healers actually heal, tanks in tank stance, and monk is slowly becoming the "needed" to help reduce magic damage etc etc.

Once you get geared, tanks can just do dps gear/tank stance T13, both whm and sch dpsing, no mnk, or go 1 healer or like some guy in the achievement thread posted, 7 warriors and 1 sch T13 >.>

Speaking of "scripted" stuff, in a way it makes things easy... however its also needed. If a fight is difficult AND random, it would be way to complex to deal with such as planning for cooldowns and such for big attacks. You can only have so much randomness before things just become way to difficult.

Imagine T13 fight, where bahamut would do his megaflare/earthshaker/flatten in a random order (and can repeat), random towers, megaflare and rage of bahamut orbs + explosion of the orbs (and repeatable). it would be a whole new level of hardcore. Well it could give the hardcore, the hardcore they want, which may not be defeated for months without some miracle of rng of possible combos of abilities not to rape the raid both in hp and morale.

[Sonomaa]

Supposedly an action listing for DRK, probably not fully accurate anymore.
http://sokuho.xii.jp/ff/?p=26525
no idea how accurate, I stole this from reddit but it looked decent

This is a provisional version actions of Dark Knight that test used till the end of 2014 summer.
DK's offencive action potencies were a bit higher than Paladin and Warrior as DK is not quite so
increasing damage as them.
Most of below actions will be modified and you can see many added actions in Heavensward because this version is designed for level 30 to 50.
Of course, you can also expect of Astrologian and Machinist.
Don't Miss It!


-Yieql Blade
Delivers an attack with a potency of 110.
Additional Effect: Damage over time with potency of 20 for 9 sec.

威力110
追加効果：継続ダメージ
威力20：効果時間9秒

-Overhead Slash Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Additional Effect: Increased enmity
Combo Action: Yieql Blade, Combo Potency: 220.

威力100
コンボ条件：Yieql Blade
コンボ時威力220
追加効果：敵視アップ

-Unholy Strike
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Additional Effect: Increased enmity.
Combo Action: Overhead Slash, Combo Potency: 290, Combo Bonus: Lowers target's evasion by 15% for 15s

威力100
コンボ条件：Overhead Slash
コンボ時威力290
追加効果：敵視アップ
15秒間ターゲットの回避を15%ダウン

-Aspil Thrust
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Yieql Blade, Combo Potency: 250, Combo Bonus: Restores MP.

威力100
コンボ条件：Yieql Blade
コンボ時威力250
追加効果：MP回復

-Roar of Rebel
Increases physical damage dealt by 20% for 20s.
Cooldown: 70s

効果時間20秒
自身の物理与ダメージを20％上昇させ る
リキャスト70秒

-Evil Omen
Reduces damage taken by 20% and reflects all 10% damage for 15s.
Cooldown: 60s

効果時間15秒
自身の被ダメージを20%軽減し、10％の 反撃ダメージを与える
リキャスト60秒

-Agglutinate Curse
Increases enmity in all nearby enemies.
Additional Effect: Slow +10% for 15s.

範囲内の敵の敵視を増加させ15秒間10% のスロウを付与

-Nocturnal Fear
Delivers an attack with a potency of 70 to all enemies in a cone in front of you and stun 2s.
Potency and stun duration increases by number of negative effects.
Cooldown: 15s

自身の周囲の敵に範囲攻撃
威力70
効果時間2秒のスタン
自身が受けているデバフの数によっ� �威力とスタン時間が増加する

-Immortal Conviction
Converts 30% of the damage into your HP and increases enmity, while lowering damage dealt by 25%.

自身の与ダメージを25％低下させる代 わりに
自身への敵視を上昇させ被ダメージ� �30%を吸収


-Dark Force
Delivers a ranged attack with a potency of 130.
Additional Effect: Increased enmity.

遠隔攻撃：威力130
追加効果：敵視増加


-Involuntary Guilt
Delivers an attack with a potency of 600.
Potency decreases as HP increases.
Additional Effect: Silence for 1s.
Cooldown: 45s

威力600
自身の残りＨＰが低いほど威力が上� �する
追加効果：沈黙
効果時間1秒
リキャスト45秒


-Oath of Blood
Most attacks cannot reduce your HP to less than 1 for 10s.
However exceeded damage must be shared with nearby party members at the end of effect.
Cooldown: 90s

10秒間自身のHPは1未満にならない
超過ダメージを近くのPTメンバーと共 有
リキャスト90秒

-Thirst for Justice
Increases maximum HP by 40% and restores the amount increased for 15s.
Takes a half of damage from all nearby party members 10y or closer.
Cooldown: 180s

15秒間、最大HPが40%上昇
効果時間中は自身の周囲10mの範囲内� �PTメンバーへのダメージを半分肩代� �りする
リキャスト180秒

[Raldo]

So basically Paladin combos/FoF/Scorn with a touch of WAR's Vengence/Overpower. Here's hoping the rest of the stuff makes it actually new and different.

[The Stig]

Hi PLD/WAR

Yieql Blade = PLDWAR 1
Overhead Slash = PLDWAR 2
Unholy Strike = PLDWAR 3
Aspil Thrust = Riot Blade
Roar of Rebel = Fight or Flight
Evil Omen = Revenge
Agglutinate Curse = Flash w00t but slows instead
Nocturnal Fear = Would it count towards every debuff or just your own team?
Dark Force = DARK FIREBALL!
Involuntary Guilt = This one's actually nice

Delivers an attack with a potency of 600.
Potency decreases as HP increases.
Additional Effect: Silence for 1s.
Cooldown: 45s

Oath of Blood - Homogang

Thirst for Justice - Nice raid cooldown
Increases maximum HP by 40% and restores the amount increased for 15s.
Takes a half of damage from all nearby party members 10y or closer.
Cooldown: 180s


Yawn. I've mastered the class already

[Gulkeeva]

Either SE did not think through the amount of trolling the ability "Oath of blood" can do, or they are going to change it before launch realizing just how badly that can wipe a raid.

*imagines a drk popping oath of blood and running out for gigaflare*

[Rocl]

It's very likely that since this is dated as being used for testing in summer of 2014 that they simply c+v'd a bunch of current tank abilities and tweaked them slightly. If all of those skills make it as-is to Summer 2015 then I question a lot of things.

[The Blackrose]

It's very likely that since this is dated as being used for testing in summer of 2014 that they simply c+v'd a bunch of current tank abilities and tweaked them slightly. If all of those skills make it as-is to Summer 2015 then I question a lot of things.

My thoughts exactly.

EDIT:

I... what. Shared how. What if they don't, do they just explode.

Hope this isn't their ohshitbutton. Imagine doing Akh Morn 2 with this like WAR does it with Holmgang.

[Seravi Edalborez]

-Oath of Blood
Most attacks cannot reduce your HP to less than 1 for 10s.
However exceeded damage must be shared with nearby party members at the end of effect.
Cooldown: 90s

I... what. Shared how. What if they don't, do they just explode.

Hope this isn't their ohshitbutton. Imagine doing Akh Morn 2 with this like WAR does it with Holmgang.

[Gulkeeva]

I... what. Shared how. What if they don't, do they just explode.

Hope this isn't their ohshitbutton. Imagine doing Akh Morn 2 with this like WAR does it with Holmgang.

Guessing you just die if no ones in range, but if they are... prepare to feel the pain!

I'm sure SE will change that though, that ability has too much trolling ability.

[Lokus]

I still like Tera's Shandra Manaya fight as a good mix of random and patterned mechanics. Part of the fight allowed mistakes in the form of stacking debuff that would instantly kill you if you messed up and got hit by things too many times. Until people started overgearing the fight, dps would always wildly fluctuate depending on how often she runs around or who she would chose to make life a living hell.

Those DRK skills make it sound like PLD 2.0. Riot blade combo, fight or flight, and some war/pld mixed skills.

Edit: typing on phone and late to the party ; ;
Edit: Apparently that list is hella troll according to reddit. Just look at the first letter of every skill.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Edit: Apparently that list is hella troll according to reddit. Just look at the first letter of every skill.

11/10 I died

[Akiyama]

Thank you for the chuckle, I needed it.