FFXIV 3.0 : Heavensward - Expansion Information and Discussion

[Sho]

Really sucks as well, the content was not dissimilar to Mission 6-4 in FFXI; just required basic coordination for success, though 6-4 was a tad bit more difficult. It really says something about the typical player when you have to nerf some basic content.

[Gulkeeva]

Some randoms in DF'ed steps... were really special, is about all I can say >.>

Felt the urge to drop instantly like many others do when that instance shows up for the daily

[Kaslo]

Some randoms in DF'ed steps... were really special, is about all I can say >.>

Felt the urge to drop instantly like many others do when that instance shows up for the daily

It's why I stopped doing Trials Roulette. Frontlines/Expert Roulettes were all I needed to cap in a few days.

[Eldelphia]

I'm kinda irritated by the nerf but the fight doesn't drop anything so I guess it doesn't really matter. I cleared it in the first group I tried it with. That was on the first or second day in Duty Finder on our second attempt at it. I've helped a few people get through it. Just doesn't seem like something which needed nerfing.

[Sho]

I actually didn't drop instantly unless I was pressed for time. Usually I attempt to coordinate (or help coordinate) a successful run so people that needed it could get a win could get it. Met with success I'd say 3 out of 5 runs every time.

Usually the biggest problems are:

1) People not DPSing Vishap and wandering around (or trying to defeat all of the adds).
2) People not clicking cannons fast enough.
3) Tank not bringing the adds in front of Vishap or gathering them at all.
4) People getting stepped on and killing their overall DPS.
5) People not using Dragonslayers at all or not waiting on snares.

All of which are simple fixes by giving some pretty basic orders, lol. I've also found that people were pretty receptive to listening, because they know they needed the win for HEAVENSWARD access (unlike The Chrysalis, which had any number of people looking for the carry).

[Kaslo]

I actually didn't drop instantly unless I was pressed for time. Usually I attempt to coordinate (or help coordinate) a successful run so people that needed it could get a win could get it. Met with success I'd say 3 out of 5 runs every time.

Usually the biggest problems are:

1) People not DPSing Vishap and wandering around (or trying to defeat all of the adds).
2) People not clicking cannons fast enough.
3) Tank not bringing the adds in front of Vishap or gathering them at all.
4) People getting stepped on and killing their overall DPS.
5) People not using Dragonslayers at all or not waiting on snares.

All of which are simple fixes by giving some pretty basic orders, lol.

On 3) sometimes this was a healer/DPS problem too. It helps tanks a ton if people who have aggro on an add move between the front legs where the tanks should be pulling stuff. Instead tanks have to run everywhere to get adds.

[Wulfgang]

A nerf was inevitable considering you cannot progress to the expansion without beating it and a massive portion of the user base has not been able to complete it. It's a ridiculous scenario to us, but BG is a microcosm of the overall XIV player base and it should be pretty clear to everyone here that there are some bad players out there. I don't understand the consternation frankly; I will never set foot in that fight again and I certainly have no pride issues with having beaten it when it was "legit!" haha. There's a thread on Reddit about how nerfing SoF is setting a dangerous precedent, etc.; lot of overreaction out there.

[Niiro]

That's why healers should always be standing right in front of him between the front legs so adds automatically gather in the ideal spot for the tank to pick them up.

What was even more annoying is when some stupid BRD (or any ranged DPS, but usually a BRD) starts attacking an add (that they shouldn't be attacking at all) as soon as it spawns and runs around kiting it 20 yards behind Vishap wondering why the tank isn't doing anything.

[The Stig]

Healers not listening to me when I say STAY IN FRONT OF BOSS YOU HAVE BEST AGGRO TOOLS was what caused most of my wipes, as it snowballs the other factors.

Well, I can do trials again! Missed them lol. Avoided it for 3-4 weeks.

[Cutriss]

1) People not DPSing Vishap and wandering around (or trying to defeat all of the adds).

FWIW, when I did this fight, it wasn't until after the second wipe that I realized this was even possible. I was on cannon duty and I had assumed that Vishap's HP was sufficiently high and the cannons sufficiently strong that it was basically "mechanics onry" and that there wasn't actually any point to DPSing without the cannons. I instead focused my non-cannon DPS on the adds.

Given that the hit numbers aren't visible on Vishap because of the targeting, I would expect this is somewhat forgivable for most people.

The implementation of the fight is neat, but there are a lot of assumptions made by the game about what the players should be doing. Should players have everything handed to them on a silver platter? Fuck no, but at the same time we shouldn't be expecting them to use the Chrono Cross here.

Would I be correct in assuming (because I don't honestly know and this is the first time I've actually had to ask) that the actual hitbox for Vishap is basically just a cylinder with the area of the targeting indicator itself, and presumably a height of about one meter? In other words, if any part of the cannon targeting circle overlaps any part of Vishap's "ground target cursor", that's a hit?

[Makwa]

The first time I tried it nobody told me a thing except "somebody use cannons" so I did that. Nobody even knew there was a dragonslayer. Lots of DPS just wanted to zerg.

[Spider-Dan]

It's a storyline fight. It's supposed to be faceroll.

I think any reasonable person would agree that Steps was far out of whack with of the rest of the storyline fights; it's significantly harder and requires more coordination than, say, Chrysalis or various Hard Mode primals (Normal mode primals in 2.0).

[Niiro]

FWIW, when I did this fight, it wasn't until after the second wipe that I realized this was even possible. I was on cannon duty and I had assumed that Vishap's HP was sufficiently high and the cannons sufficiently strong that it was basically "mechanics onry" and that there wasn't actually any point to DPSing without the cannons. I instead focused my non-cannon DPS on the adds.

Given that the hit numbers aren't visible on Vishap because of the targeting, I would expect this is somewhat forgivable for most people.

They are visible, but only when he's close enough for flying text to be visible.

The difference in his model size vs the size of his actual target ring is extremely awkward.

[Kaslo]

Now I kind of want to see a speed run with 6 DPS 1 healer 1 tank post-nerf.

[Cutriss]

They are visible, but only when he's close enough for flying text to be visible.

Which, IIRC, is not visible at the distance which Vishap stops to do the cannon swipe.

[Cutriss]

Oh, this slipped in with the Primal Ponies bit:

The music played when riding the following mounts has been changed:
Sleipnir / Aithon / Xanthos / Gullfaxi / Enbarr / Markab / Boreas

[Destinye]

Can't say I agree with Steps of Faith nerfing. Catering to the least common denominator of casual doesn't bode well for the future, even if it was a storyline fight.

Yeah, catching up with some JP people they say the same lol: "So we're basically catering to the loudest american players that only wanted to sit there and spam 3 buttons and win. This is why we can't have nice things anymore."

SoF wasn't hard. None of the content in this game is that hard..just people who refuse to learn content want the same rewards. Now the people who can't think beyond: "I PUSH 1-2-3 NAO." will flood heavensward. Say what you will about XI, at least it regulated the players properly.

[Raldo]

The knee-jerk reaction was a bit too far, for sure. All they really needed to do was speed up the dragon, and reduce its HP. If the trial wasn't so damn LONG, people wouldn't be so averse to helping people through it.

Adding it to story roulette would've been nice, but I understand why they couldn't. If they put SoF in the story roulette, it would cause the minimum iLv to queue for story roulette to go up a ton, as well as forcing you to complete SoF before you could even access story roulette.


I don't know where else to ask it, so since the primal mount songs were mentioned here... Does the Shiva pony play the first or second(vocal) Shiva song?

[Katlan]

It's why I stopped doing Trials Roulette. Frontlines/Expert Roulettes were all I needed to cap in a few days.

this is the main reason why it was nerfed imo. If it wasn't part of trial roullete then nobody would care, but how many of you would bail when you got it for your trial roullete? I sure did. And I did so because getting it wasn't worth the effort for my "daily trial roullete" and the 30m debuff and trying again later was more worthwhile.

It's the plague of people instantly leaving that caused the nerf. If SE was smart they would of added a new tier of roullete or added it to story roullete. Then people would not mind getting it instead of Castrum/Praet (even though it would still take longer then either of those lol)

[Destinye]

The knee-jerk reaction was a bit too far, for sure. All they really needed to do was speed up the dragon, and reduce its HP. If the trial wasn't so damn LONG, people wouldn't be so averse to helping people through it.

Adding it to story roulette would've been nice, but I understand why they couldn't. If they put SoF in the story roulette, it would cause the minimum iLv to queue for story roulette to go up a ton, as well as forcing you to complete SoF before you could even access story roulette.


I don't know where else to ask it, so since the primal mount songs were mentioned here... Does the Shiva pony play the first or second(vocal) Shiva song?

Plays the 2nd phase, like I assume all ohers (I know Levi and Shiva for sure, I never bothered to farm the rest.)