FFXIV 3.0 : Heavensward - Expansion Information and Discussion

[Spider-Dan]

Are they just going to disable all exp gains level 50+ when doing old content? Because that's retarded and arbitrary as fuck.

Yes. And yes, it is.

Can someone explain the fears about Brayflox to me?

You get exp from killing mobs, not finishing dungeons, and exp gain is scaled to mob difficulty anyway so the exp you'd get from mobs in a "low-level" level 50 dungeon like Bray probably wouldn't even be a lot relative to the lvl 50-60 tnls.

If you could level up in old content, I probably wouldn't even touch Ishgard until LV53ish. I think T4 (or maybe even T3) would be a better deal.

[Niiro]

I could understand not giving raid mobs exp because the purpose of raids is not and has never been exp, not the case with dungeons.

[Spider-Dan]

Then by the same logic, the purpose of any dungeon that requires LV50 to enter was also not to gain exp.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Maybe AV or DD spam still works. Or it becomes petty arbitrary.

[Niiro]

Then by the same logic, the purpose of any dungeon that requires LV50 to enter was also not to gain exp.

Dungeons existed for exp before 50, it was only at 50 that they no longer gave exp and only because we could no longer gain it.

No raid has ever given exp.

[Voyage1970]

Maybe AV or DD spam still works. Or it becomes petty arbitrary.

Even if it does, like people pointed out before the exp will only be relevant from a level 47-49 point of view so you probably would still be better off doing the new dungeons. Then again if you are openly admitting that your new dungeons are boring grinds that you know people will not want to do then I don't know what to say. That's not exactly a shining endorsement of your new content and it seems like a pretty easy fix to just up the values for new dungeons to match the efficiency of older dungeons.

[Spider-Dan]

Dungeons existed for exp before 50, it was only at 50 that they no longer gave exp and only because we could no longer gain it.

No raid has ever given exp.

Or, put another way: content that requires LV50 to enter was not designed around balanced exp gain, therefore it should not grant exp. So I don't see any reason why Brayflox Hard would give exp but Turn 3 would not; neither one was balanced with exp gain in mind.

In a logical world, pre-50 content should still give reduced exp (as Seravi said). However, we all know there's going to be a flag set that says, "Not in expansion area? Cannot gain exp."

I guess this was implied but this statement would seem to make it crystal clear: you literally must purchase the expansion in order to level past 50. I'm guessing that's also how it worked in WoW, because it wasn't like that in XI.

[Destinye]

Even if it does, like people pointed out before the exp will only be relevant from a level 47-49 point of view so you probably would still be better off doing the new dungeons. Then again if you are openly admitting that your new dungeons are boring grinds that you know people will not want to do then I don't know what to say. That's not exactly a shining endorsement of your new content and it seems like a pretty easy fix to just up the values for new dungeons to match the efficiency of older dungeons.

This is exactly how I took it.

[Neon_Sea]

The thought of power leveling all my classes via brayflox hm is too much. I know you guys just want your shit quick but Im glad personally.

[Destinye]

The thought of power leveling all my classes via brayflox hm is too much. I know you guys just want your shit quick but Im glad personally.

It's the quickest and easiest HM with a decent amount of pulls. The new dungeons, as I said, are likely akin to Lost City/Pharos - Good design but DEFINITELY not something you'd want to grind.

[Patriarch]

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...yConcerns.html

Did I miss the conversation about this, or did we all miss it?

Outside of the goofy bullshit about current dungeons not giving exp past 50, the above link has some neat info about exp for <50 jobs

[Elcura]

How do you know the new dungeons aren't worth grinding? Usually the dungeon that is your level is (along with whatever else is relevant) the best way to gain EXP. If the EXP gains are relevant, doing 50 dungeons would be ultimately slower than 50+ even without optimal setups or plans.

I would also doubt that you would spam Brayflox HM when you could just as easily do MSQ + Dungeons for the same result and make progress. It doesn't seem like the best option if it could be one.

[Niiro]

^

If the new dungeons don't give worthwhile exp compared to doing something like Bray HM then SE did not care to bother designing them well in terms of effort or reward.

Or fun.

[Voyage1970]

How do you know the new dungeons aren't worth grinding?

If it wasn't an issue then why would Yoshida even mention it? I get he was asked a question about it but his answer could have just simply been "Dungeons in Heavensward are better anyway so it shouldn't be a concern for people wanting to level." Instead he mentions that people would want to choose older dungeons specifically because they would be more efficient. That sets off a red flag in my head, even if it's ultimately nothing to worry about since we'll probably want the dungeon gear for progression anyway. And if they really wanted to give us incentive they could allow us to start working on Law tomestones while leveling so when we hit 60 we'd have enough for a single piece of gear or something.

[Stef]

Yoshida:Because the new dungeons have a different pacing than the ones from A Realm Reborn, we were also afraid that people would gravitate towards the older instanced dungeons for more efficient experience.

Hold on a minute. Yoshi-P goes and tells us that the new dungeons will have a different pacing to the ones in ARR and all anyone talks about is how they wish they could spam old dungeons to level to 60? It's really impossible to please some people I guess.

People have wanted more meaty, challenging dungeons for a while and got upset when things like Pharos and AK were nerfed. People complained about Brayflox because they hated the idea that one dungeon was so much more efficient so as to invalidate the others. Yoshi-P is telling us that the new dungeons will be more demanding than what we're used to in ARR and he's ensuring queues for them won't be terrible as a result of people going elsewhere to spam out easy exp. When 2.1 launched I found Pharos to be quite fun until people started abandoning the duty as soon as it popped.

Anyway, I'm pretty excited. I'm looking forward to the slightly more difficult overworld, the slightly more demanding dungeons, the fleshed out mid-tier raiding with FC airships in 3.1, and Savage Alexander. It seems there'll be a few more challenges for all types of players in Heavensward.

[Niiro]

No one talked about spamming old dungeons until they told us explicitly that we couldn't do old dungeons for exp, at all.

Big difference.

[ArchDizzle]

Anyone else pre order on PSN now that its up? If so did you receive a code?

[Edelweiss]

People have wanted more meaty, challenging dungeons for a while and got upset when things like Pharos and AK were nerfed. People complained about Brayflox because they hated the idea that one dungeon was so much more efficient so as to invalidate the others. Yoshi-P is telling us that the new dungeons will be more demanding than what we're used to in ARR and he's ensuring queues for them won't be terrible as a result of people going elsewhere to spam out easy exp. When 2.1 launched I found Pharos to be quite fun until people started abandoning the duty as soon as it popped.

I'm not sticking around for people who literally couldn't handle the first boss, let alone shit-tier healing that struggled to just remove that overwhelming single-target countdown Charm on Siren. There's nothing fun about wasting your time with incompitent players. People in full AF1/Darklight or other trash weapons/NQ accessories/etc. = time to nope the fuck out of there.

How can you really blame anyone for just not wanting to be a part of that nonsense? Eventually, if you didn't like what you saw from looking at people (checking was probably unnecessary, as we didn't have glamours then), you bailed the fuck out. Either way, you were probably going to take a 30 minue penalty in some form or another. At least the bailing out penalty didn't come with repair bills and loss of brain cells/sanity.

Hold on a minute. Yoshi-P goes and tells us that the new dungeons will have a different pacing to the ones in ARR and all anyone talks about is how they wish they could spam old dungeons to level to 60? It's really impossible to please some people I guess.

No one talked about spamming old dungeons until they told us explicitly that we couldn't do old dungeons for exp, at all.

Big difference.

This.

[Elcura]

If it wasn't an issue then why would Yoshida even mention it? I get he was asked a question about it but his answer could have just simply been "Dungeons in Heavensward are better anyway so it shouldn't be a concern for people wanting to level." Instead he mentions that people would want to choose older dungeons specifically because they would be more efficient. That sets off a red flag in my head, even if it's ultimately nothing to worry about since we'll probably want the dungeon gear for progression anyway. And if they really wanted to give us incentive they could allow us to start working on Law tomestones while leveling so when we hit 60 we'd have enough for a single piece of gear or something.

It's not literal, but people do tend to pick the earliest option available. No doubt some would try old dungeon spamming, some would try new content and eventually people would figure out the best way to get to 60.

That doesn't happen at the start of a patch, nevermind an expansion so he's just being paranoid and extra careful. Ultimately no one can know (now more than ever) whether Brayflox spam would be faster than 50+ content until it was measured properly.

It's something to think about but it's not a big deal by any stretch of the imagination.

[Sho]

The thought of power leveling all my classes via brayflox hm is too much. I know you guys just want your shit quick but Im glad personally.

I'm with this line of thinking. They don't have to feel obligated to allow us to lvl up in old areas at all. The point was pretty clear -- they are giving people every reason to buy the expansion. No one even knows how difficult the new dungeons will be at all -- we definitely shouldn't be taking to the example of a few interviewers who are likely very casual at the game.

Either way, even if we assume Brayflox HM would be an exp-able zone, the gains from spamming it would have tapered off at around lvl 54.