FFXIV 3.0 : Heavensward - Expansion Information and Discussion

[Lucavi]

It's been more than half a year since they last added meaningful content, that's a lot of time to reflect on the poor design choices they've made as well as the laundry list of unresolved QoL issues that they've never addressed.

I made a post after they released the new job ability info a few weeks back pointing out how they'd rather make MNK's new abilities about working around the poor design of GL rather than addressing the flaws with GL and having the freedom to do more interesting things with the new abilities.

Likewise, it is extremely frustrating to watch the myriad of issues (both big and small) with the current game remain continuously unresolved while they try and get us excited for new stuff that would rather build on flawed mechanics than try to resolve them. It does not give the impression that they're learning from their mistakes or that their design philosophy is evolving for the better.

If that's your opinion, then its all fair and well. What are you going to do about it, though? Is this it, or does voting with a wallet ever come into play? I suppose if they held more "tell us what you think!" surveys and the like, you could actually bombard with the laundry list of shitty decisions they've made time and time again over the trainwreck of a game, but they really haven't done that since that little survey about what new race we'd want, right?

I think even then, Dragon people only got like 7% of the vote and they still went with em anyway, so yeah. Guess that wouldn't help much.

[solracht]

If we look at WoW and calculate the average number of unique raid bosses per 12 months we get 17-18 in WotLK and Cata, 20 in MoP, 28 in BC and about 30 in Vanilla.

If we only count unique mid- to hardcore fights that factor into progression (Coil and the hardest versions of each trial)l and discount the casual ones (Hildebrand and CT) in FFXIV the average is 18 bosses per 12 months which is on par with WotLK and Cata and just under MoP.

-i90 tier: Four Binding Coil Turns, three EX primals (6 months)
-i110 tier: Four Second Coil Turns, one EX primal (7 months)
-i130 tier: Four Final Coil Turns (8-9 months depending on when you stop counting)

I'd argue against counting Moogle, Shiva and Leviathan as endgame bosses (on the same level as the aforementioned ones, at least) but even if I include them, I'm still nowhere near your 18 fights per year.

Can you post the list?

Things like Attument the Huntsmen, Argaloth, Flame Leviathan, Immerseus, Kargath Bladefist or any other early bosses in a WoW raid aren't particularly mechanically complex. The numbers just tend to be tuned a little bit higher. They still get cleared almost instantly on the PTR

I don't think you want to go down that road. Turn 1-4 had virtually no mechanics and a there are quite a few trials/turns with very simple mechanics.

[Rocl]

turn 2 had object 199 tho

[Rocl]

that's 198 mechanics at least

[Voyage1970]

So 15% is actually a good number then. I was wondering about why it was so high, considering the difference between front and rear accuracy requirement is what, about 7-8%? But if you have that extra margin while MTing, you can potentially get some decent secondary stat tradeoff for DPSing as OT which perhaps effectively increases your DPS even though your accuracy drops below 100%. And if you know you're going to be MTing almost all the time, you can be even more aggressive about it and trade off enough accuracy for other secondaries so that the extra 15% puts you just at 100% hit rate.

A bit curious on this. Is the Japanese worded in a way to imply it's a 15% increase to Hit-Rate and not so much Accuracy? If it's the latter I could see issues arising as the ilvl cap goes up and we start needing more and more accuracy to reach the 100% marker. 15% accuracy will be worth less and less as we get more and more difficult content and we'll eventually find ourselves having to gear for accuracy again anyway.

[solracht]

199 mechanics but an object aint one

[Slycer]

A bit curious on this. Is the Japanese worded in a way to imply it's a 15% increase to Hit-Rate and not so much Accuracy? If it's the latter I could see issues arising as the ilvl cap goes up and we start needing more and more accuracy to reach the 100% marker. 15% accuracy will be worth less and less as we get more and more difficult content and we'll eventually find ourselves having to gear for accuracy again anyway.

Unless there was a miscommunication or misinterpretation between Yoshida and the interviewer, he was definitely talking about the accuracy value, not hit rate.

[Niiro]

If that's your opinion, then its all fair and well. What are you going to do about it, though? Is this it, or does voting with a wallet ever come into play? I suppose if they held more "tell us what you think!" surveys and the like, you could actually bombard with the laundry list of shitty decisions they've made time and time again over the trainwreck of a game, but they really haven't done that since that little survey about what new race we'd want, right?

I think even then, Dragon people only got like 7% of the vote and they still went with em anyway, so yeah. Guess that wouldn't help much.

Me not playing the game won't make it better, the game is already financially successful and will continue to be, voicing my issues with the game is all I can do to try and make it a better game.

We all knew on day 1 of ARR that DRG's positional requirements were stupid and they should just be bonuses like MNK's, it may have taken them more than a goddamn year but they eventually did exactly that, the game isn't bad, it's flawed (what's more, it's run by SE ಠ_ಠ).

If the game was a "trainwreck" I wouldn't care enough to play it much less be critical of it.

[Niiro]

A bit curious on this. Is the Japanese worded in a way to imply it's a 15% increase to Hit-Rate and not so much Accuracy? If it's the latter I could see issues arising as the ilvl cap goes up and we start needing more and more accuracy to reach the 100% marker. 15% accuracy will be worth less and less as we get more and more difficult content and we'll eventually find ourselves having to gear for accuracy again anyway.

I don't see the issue, more difficult content means higher ilvl gear, means higher ACC values on said gear (also more base ACC from higher player level), means more accuracy gained from a % based increase.

[Spider-Dan]

I still don't understand why many of the same people who complained loudly about 2.0 WAR, hunt marks, coil lockouts, etc. are surprised by voicing of complaints on other topics.

Complaining obviously works to accomplish the goal of change.

[Voyage1970]

I don't see the issue, more difficult content means higher ilvl gear, means higher ACC values on said gear (also more base ACC from higher player level), means more accuracy gained from a % based increase.

I figured it was a 15% boost to base accuracy but thinking about it that would be really silly. I was also thinking about it in terms of Critical Hit Rate or Skill Speed where the values of a single point change as you level up but forgot that once you hit the physical level cap the value per point remains the same even as you go up in ilvl.

[Niiro]

Yea I don't see any reason for it to be based on your base ACC before gear, I don't think anything in the game is based on your base stats before gear.

a lot of base in that sentence

[Stef]

-i90 tier: Four Binding Coil Turns, three EX primals (6 months)
-i110 tier: Four Second Coil Turns, one EX primal (7 months)
-i130 tier: Four Final Coil Turns (8-9 months depending on when you stop counting)

I'd argue against counting Moogle, Shiva and Leviathan as endgame bosses (on the same level as the aforementioned ones, at least) but even if I include them, I'm still nowhere near your 18 fights per year.

Can you post the list?



I don't think you want to go down that road. Turn 1-4 had virtually no mechanics and a there are quite a few trials/turns with very simple mechanics.

Good call actually! My calculations were a bit outdated. Also, I've counted a few bosses that you probably wouldn't have. The reason I included things like Hydra, Chimera, and Ultima HM were because they posed a decent challenge at the time they were released and factored into relic progression or dropped accessories that people farmed.

• 10 Trials: Hydra, Chimera, Ultima HM, Ifrit EX, Garuda EX, Titan EX, Moogle EX, Leviathan EX, Ramuh EX, Shiva EX
• 5 casual trials: Gilgamesh, Ultros/Typhon, Odin, Steps of Faith, the Chrysalis
• 13 Crystal Tower bosses: 5 in LotA and 4 in Syrcus Tower, 4 in World of Darkness
• 12 Coil bosses: 4 in BCoB, 4 in SCoB, 4 in FCoB

So that would bring my actual number to about 13 "progression" bosses per year given ARR has lasted 21 months. Total bosses is around 23 per year. So we've definitely lost ground. Thanks for the correction! (I await the laughter )

[Sho]

Bug that was stopping PS4 upgrade players from preordering has been resolved.

[Ratatapa]

Bug that was stopping PS4 upgrade players from preordering has been resolved.

Thx babe it is done and the theme is nice

[Slycer]

I don't see the issue, more difficult content means higher ilvl gear, means higher ACC values on said gear (also more base ACC from higher player level), means more accuracy gained from a % based increase.

If we're just talking about dropping accuracy pieces in favor of other secondaries to take advantage of the 15%, you might have to throw an extra accuracy piece or two on as item levels start inflating vs player level. Your base accuracy will stay the same but the accuracy requirement for fights will keep increasing with item level, and your item level only corresponds to your accuracy if you're using gear with accuracy.

At any rate, as others have said, if we still only have two max level gear options, this whole line of thinking will probably be largely irrelevant.

[Niiro]

I didn't really see the ACC bonus to tank stances as something we necessarily needed (or would need) but rather just as a QoL adjustment since tanks were always forced to wear so much more ACC than other jobs but didn't get any more ACC on their gear.

Like I wouldn't expect the difference between frontal and flank accuracy reqs to become disproportionately larger going forward (relative to the acc values on increasing ilvl gear) thus requiring the ACC bonus from tank stances to meet them.

"Yea we know ACC is kinda stupid and arbitrary so we're making it less annoying for the jobs that need it most" basically.

[Lucavi]

I didn't really see the ACC bonus to tank stances as something we necessarily needed (or would need) but rather just as a QoL adjustment since tanks were always forced to wear so much more ACC than other jobs but didn't get any more ACC on their gear.

Like I wouldn't expect the difference between frontal and flank accuracy reqs to become disproportionately larger going forward (relative to the acc values on increasing ilvl gear) thus requiring the ACC bonus from tank stances to meet them.

"Yea we know ACC is kinda stupid and arbitrary so we're making it less annoying for the jobs that need it most" basically.

I agree 100%, especially when the other classes not only had less of an issue gearing up into acc, but have less of an impact from misses. Yes, the DPS loss blows, but Wars missing a butcher's block on T5 may have meant losing hate, sometimes at uhh... critical times. Death sentence onto a monk, anyone?

I think some of my old heads still have the screenshots. Some epic damage numbers, that's for sure...

[Niiro]

It would be nice if they just changed accuracy so that when you "missed" you didn't actually miss but just suffered a damage penalty, like a reverse crit (-50% damage instead of +50%).

You still wouldn't want to go into stuff without the necessary accuracy, but it wouldn't completely screw your combo and it would be nice for situations where you're a melee attacking from the front (which happens in a lot of fights, especially when adds are concerned).

It would also make WHM DPS less of a flagrant waste of MP (just somewhat of a waste). They could even make the potency penalty only apply to the initial damage and not DoT damage, so Aero/AeroII would still be worth using.

edit:

Would also be a godsend for SMNs as well, they could get by just fine with the normal magic ACC cap, their pet only doing 50% damage like 10% of the time (ie. 90% hit rate) would hardly be the end of the world.

[Destinye]

Personally, i'd just like the old BRD song back...

You know..minuet of rigor..and the ability to play 2 songs at once.

i think it's not so much that 1.x was better for me it's more, as i said, they've done just so much only to basically regress. Things change yeah, it felt like they could have expanded so much on what they had that they wouldn't and shouldn't need to do arbitrary changes to stance. Yoshi fears haste.

Gives haste abilities.

Fears overcomplicating things for new players thus dropping additional stats from gear.

Creates rotations that does what the gear used to do.