FFXIV 3.0 : Heavensward - Expansion Information and Discussion

[Lokus]

Seems some people are forgetting the tomfoolery that happened with 2.0 Warrior.

[Gokulo]

If Samurai is a tank, I will be soooooo happy.

Maybe SE is watching Log Horizon

[Adajer]

Inb4 they call Samurai a Shogun or something just to piss people off. i.e. THF

edit: or maybe if the trend really is copying WoW, drk will be a Death Knight

[Spider-Dan]

I think RDM could work out fine if they bit the bullet and forced them into the role they essentially functioned as in FFXI rather than the 'traditional' jack-of-all-trades RDM. A non-combat mage leaning more towards healer and strong support. Give them relatively weak direct heals, phalanx, refresh, and slightly stronger DPS capabilities than SCH. Essentially rely on your co-healer using their stronger, less MP efficient spells to mostly solo heal because of refresh while you DPS.

The job you describe would mostly just serve to fight with SCH over party slots (and solidify WHM as first-tier heal). WHM is really the only job that would benefit from Refresh, and a job with better DPS and worse heals than SCH, along with increased damage mitigation (and the aforementioned Refresh), would essentially be used to enable WHM "single heal"-style parties. SCH can't make good use of the extra MP and is already very mitigation-focused. So you'd wind up with a lot of RDM+WHM and SCH+WHM, but SCH+RDM would be pretty weak in comparison.

[TheDirtyHobo]

It's like you missed the point of what I said. It's not based on your idea of LNC parry tanks, but overall on specializations. Sure, you can say pretty words like ideal balance system but the reality of that is so far removed I just laugh when people say it.

Hell, it's like you don't even get that if there's even a slight margin for or against that job people will react in extremes in regards to playing it. And the further you get into your rabbit hole the more likely unusable and unwinnable become.

What? Are you sure you didn't miss the idea of what I said? Because my point was never about LNC parry tank in specific. It's saying that job balance should be tightly tuned enough that different fights give different jobs their chance to be dominant, but nothing should ever be unplayable. It's really not some revolutionary, impossible to obtain ideal; the game is already impressively well balanced in this regard. Dragoon is their only real 'mistake', right now, and even that isn't terribly far out of line.

And, again, there's 2 groups of people that really care about efficiency to the point of not bringing certain classes. There's the hardcore progression raiders who will simply do what needs to be done and shift around naturally and silently to whatever is best for efficiency's sake, because it's the way they like to play. Then there's the duty finder all-stars who have wet dreams about the previous group, and berate anyone who dares challenge that that level of maximization probably won't make a difference in clearing or not when you're still wiping because of mechanical failures. The first group tends to realize that it's individual player choice to play what they enjoy, as long as it's not gimping the group to a significant degree. The second group forces their beliefs on everyone else. Chances are, if a group won't let you in as a role they need because it's not the most efficient job, they probably weren't worth joining anyways.

Unless you're talking about the forums. Everyone bitches about everything on the forums, so who cares.

The job you describe would mostly just serve to fight with SCH over party slots (and solidify WHM as first-tier heal). WHM is really the only job that would benefit from Refresh, and a job with better DPS and worse heals than SCH, along with increased damage mitigation (and the aforementioned Refresh), would essentially be used to enable WHM "single heal"-style parties. SCH can't make good use of the extra MP and is already very mitigation-focused. So you'd wind up with a lot of RDM+WHM and SCH+WHM, but SCH+RDM would be pretty weak in comparison.

Enabling "single heal" parties is how I envision it, yes, but I don't see why SCH benefits from that any less than WHM? It would require slightly more finesse and may have trouble with aoe-heavy fights, but that's just SCH in general compared to WHM.

[Tomino]

My bet is still for Red Mage to branch from the Musketeer class.
Would really like a new take on the Job, like how they somehow reworked Summoner into WoW Lock and Scholar into a pet-healer.

Rogue > Ninja lore will probably open up for either Warrior > Samurai, or Lancer > Samurai.
Some master Samurai comes to Eorzea and combines his / her expertise with an existing guild.

[Elcura]

It's saying that job balance should be tightly tuned enough that different fights give different jobs their chance to be dominant, but nothing should ever be unplayable. It's really not some revolutionary, impossible to obtain ideal; the game is already impressively well balanced in this regard. Dragoon is their only real 'mistake', right now, and even that isn't terribly far out of line.

This has been covered so many times. The reason balancing is tight is simply because the jobs are straight forward and also somewhat generalised. Also, how is DRG a mistake? Do you even play this game? That's not true in anyway.

And, again, there's 2 groups of people that really care about efficiency to the point of not bringing certain classes. There's the hardcore progression raiders who will simply do what needs to be done and shift around naturally and silently to whatever is best for efficiency's sake, because it's the way they like to play. Then there's the duty finder all-stars who have wet dreams about the previous group, and berate anyone who dares challenge that that level of maximization probably won't make a difference in clearing or not when you're still wiping because of mechanical failures. The first group tends to realize that it's individual player choice to play what they enjoy, as long as it's not gimping the group to a significant degree. The second group forces their beliefs on everyone else. Chances are, if a group won't let you in as a role they need because it's not the most efficient job, they probably weren't worth joining anyways.

Let me refer to 2.0 warrior, or 1.0 ARC stacking, then BLM stacking, then at very specific points MNK stacking. Fights where your job of choice is meaningless because we're all oh so special. This wasn't just the elite progression crew or wannabes, it was the majority of people. The herd follows very easy to read movements. So again, the more specialised jobs become, the worse balancing is and the more tomfoolery you get when it comes to picking jobs.

[ronin sparthos]

Then make it, but how is level 50-60 quest hub and levequests "group grinding"?

Dungeons count, but apparently you just said instance-heavy aint healthy, so...

It isn't, it's a pointless timesink. I think we can all safely say that days to get one level is antiquated.

Do you really feel connections to people doing instanced dungeons? Anyone I like is almost always on a diff server which ruins any sense of camaraderie. Worse still when people don't bother to talk. Shut up and speed run as it were. The game could use more middle ground content that gets people into small, focused parties to accomplish a long-term goal without it approaching Coil-tier levels of hardcore.

Increased emphasis on your FC should be the number one priority of their expansion pack. We've got the base game polished up and picked clean of all the ticks, it's now time to build that social experience expected of an MMO.

It is and it isn't though. A large portion of the FFXI population who played when they had tons of free time have not aged into FFXIV where they have a lot of other real life things that keeps their playtime low. So being able to do endgame without waking up at 3 am for a Fafnir window is a good change of pace life-wise.

At least that's the vibe I get from talking with my FC members that all migrated from FFXI.

I think it's understood the game doesn't need Fafnir resurgent but honestly there are plenty of young people (us, ~10 years ago) who could use the social experience this game currently lacks. XIV needs more social and less fast-food, served up in an instance, never gonna see these peeps again content. I expect that going through it's ROTZ-era.

[Spider-Dan]

It's saying that job balance should be tightly tuned enough that different fights give different jobs their chance to be dominant, but nothing should ever be unplayable.

When jobs do different things, sometimes people want one instead of another for certain content. This was determined to be unacceptable, which is why 2.1 WAR was made into a -damage% tank like PLD.

This game, in general, focuses on homogenizing differences so that every job is ~equally good at all content (which is incredibly ironic given the "CLASS IDENTITY" chants in 1.0). Yoshida smartly realized that the ability to change classes has a heavy masking effect on the similarity between jobs.

Enabling "single heal" parties is how I envision it, yes, but I don't see why SCH benefits from that any less than WHM?

In a "single heal"-style party, WHM benefits from extra MP as they can just accelerate their MP burn rate to increase their HPS. SCH can't really do this.

[darkepyon]

Then hopefully a year down the line into the expansion they will add Blue Mage, like they did for Ninja. :kappa:

Despite being a career BLU in my XI days, I'm not sure how I'd feel if it came up in XIV. With how the game is, it would be awfully tricky to implement.

[Adajer]

Pretty sure it will be a dps. Not really hard to throw jobs into red blue or green.

[Shenrien]

Inb4 they call Samurai a Shogun or something just to piss people off. i.e. THF

edit: or maybe if the trend really is copying WoW, drk will be a Death Knight

I actually kinda hope that DRK is just a DK rip, because DK was a lot of fun to play. Not to mention OP as shit but yeah.

[Obsidian]

Before they add another tank job they need to balance the two they have. PLD is pretty junk for just about everything compared to WAR, and WAR still has Foresight and Bloodbath waiting to be unsuckified.

[Lucavi]

It isn't, it's a pointless timesink. I think we can all safely say that days to get one level is antiquated.

Do you really feel connections to people doing instanced dungeons? Anyone I like is almost always on a diff server which ruins any sense of camaraderie. Worse still when people don't bother to talk. Shut up and speed run as it were. The game could use more middle ground content that gets people into small, focused parties to accomplish a long-term goal without it approaching Coil-tier levels of hardcore.

Increased emphasis on your FC should be the number one priority of their expansion pack. We've got the base game polished up and picked clean of all the ticks, it's now time to build that social experience expected of an MMO. .

I don't disagree that I'd like to see more FC content, but I disagree that the game "needs" anything. For every person that gets burned out and leaves the game because of lack of FC content or 8-mans being shitty for end-game progression or whatever, more people join the game, especially as SE branches out into new countries. ARR doesn't "need" anything except to keep releasing in new places and keep attracting new dollars. I don't understand why that's impossible to understand. You're misusing your words by throwing around "needs this!" and "needs that!".

Would the game be better off with a greater focus on FC content? Most likely.

Will the game "fail" without it? No.

[Niiro]

Before they add another tank job they need to balance the two they have. PLD is pretty junk for just about everything compared to WAR, and WAR still has Foresight and Bloodbath waiting to be unsuckified.

PLD is only "junk" when you have something on farm status, at which point it doesn't matter anyway.

PLD has better mitigation, WAR has better damage.

[Lucavi]

Yeah Pld is tits during undergeared progression where all that free mitigation can let you experiment with a safety net.

[Obsidian]

Warrior's mitigation over time is roughly equal to PLD's (shield blocks are 4-5% in favour of PLD but there's a lot of unblockable damage in the game which favours WAR) and they're better equipped to deal with frequent spike damage. On top of which they'll do more damage and have the ability to generate significantly more enmity than a PLD on single targets and especially groups.

Ignoring all that, I don't really see how one could think that a class being rendered useless due to content familiarity is acceptable.

[Niiro]

WAR and PLD are on nearly equal footing -before- you account for shield blocks.

The best breakdown of their relative mitigation I've come across: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...oposed-changes

[Spider-Dan]

The only thing that matters in this game is content that cannot/can barely be completed, right?

So if they introduce any sort of variance or deviance from established norms in a new job, and that change makes the new job either better or worse in the then-current coil equivalent, that job is necessarily either overpowered or useless, respectively.

...which is exactly why this game allows you no meaningful choices. If people have the opportunity to choose between options, players might start excluding people who make bad choices! And we can't have that.

[Seravi Edalborez]

WAR's better mitigation (IB) relies on fight knowledge, so it's not everyone's first pick as MT for progression. Consequently when you end up clearing with PLD MT, you usually don't bother making the WAR and PLD now swap roles. Because why bother unless bored, when you have another turn to learn+clear? That isn't really a factor of useful vs useless.