FFXIV 3.0 : Heavensward - Expansion Information and Discussion

[Elcura]

All of the actual deadly mobs in 1.0 were far off the beaten path, putting them in frequently traversed areas is both stupid and uninteresting.

But now you're talking about different things, if a quest repeatedly takes you through a given area, that's not exploration.

So what if they were off the beaten path? If you had to go there for any reason you were instantly inconvenienced for no other reason than you couldn't be strong enough to survive no matter what you did. And if you don't have to interact with them why have them there at all? Is it some prize to get to a beautiful vista (because anything that can be done with monsters can be done with terrain)? It's a messy road that doesn't actually add anything to the game. Maybe it would mean something if you could get strong enough to traverse there in time but what use is that in an MMO?

And the quest thing is just hyperbole so stop that.

I imagine if they did add hard enemies they'd still have a leash mechanic, so getting caught won't be a death sentence if you're lucky. Also harder enemies are usually far outside your normal path. I think we need a balance of what we have now and what XI had. I don't want monsters that will just completely murder you without you having a chance to defend yourself well, but I also don't want enemies that are background decoration, or as described better, basically tourist attractions. Would it be terribly difficult to make it to where enemies felt threatening but not overpowering in the open world?

There's a lot good from an open world like XI's. It actually had reasons to explore and not just "oh look pretty". I mean, basic examples are NMs, HNMs, Treasure Chests/Coffers, finding exp spots others might not know about and such. I know a lot of those won't come back and weren't fun for everyone.... and HNMs bring a baste taste to a lot of peoples mouth thanks to how they were implemented in XI. I also don't see NMs/HNMs coming to XIV in any meaningful way because the armor system, pure Item level, doesn't leave any room for creative armor/weapons to drop from NMs outside of Vanity... so the open world is pretty much doomed in XIV in terms of being actually meaningful. Hunts we're just... almost good, but missed by a far mark.

So long as they keep everything in the game focused primarily around token farming for charity gear until you can get the endgame raid armor, there's no room for improvement in their systems.

I get that not everyone wants what i want, but I have to believe none of you want this progression system forever, and right now it seems like its going to be it for the foreseeable future.

I don't want this progression system to last either but I'd rather not have archaic things return for no reason other than nostalgia. If they're going to add difficulty and challenge I'd rather they focused that effort on making better raids rather than figuring out how to balance open-world mobs to be threatening but not too threatening.

[Niiro]

And if you don't have to interact with them why have them there at all?

Exploration.

[Elcura]

Exploration.

Again, terrain. Why do you need monsters that can murder you?

[Niiro]

Because I'm not seeing how terrain is ever an obstacle unless your character has to skill up mountain climbing or something.

I don't really expect any of this to come with 3.0 anyway, it's clear that they just aren't interested in making zones or an open world like this, it just has no place in a theme park MMO.

They're clearly intent on everything being readily accessible to everyone, they're not going to devote time and resources to niche content or hidden little surprises that serve no gameplay purpose other than creating atmosphere.

[Elcura]

Because I'm not seeing how terrain is ever an obstacle unless your character has to skill up mountain climbing or something.

Have you ever done any actual exploring? Or do you just have 0 imagination?

[Niiro]

Have you found anyplace in XIV that was difficult to get to because of terrain?

Do you think having a flying mount will make that harder?

[Makwa]

honestly, threatening monsters would be ideal because i think itd be fun to have to defend yourself while shouting for assistance(if you dont run)

[Elcura]

Have you found anyplace in XIV that was difficult to get to because of terrain?

Do you think having a flying mount will make that harder?

Because we're talking about things XIV has aren't we? Clearly the map development team is focusing on complex terrain puzzles or maybe you have to make maps with such things in mind.

[Niiro]

You asked

Have you ever done any actual exploring? Or do you just have 0 imagination?

Was I supposed to assume you were talking about something other than the game we are talking about?

[Elcura]

Was I supposed to assume you were talking about something other than the game we are talking about?

...Yes?

[Detzu]

you want to instakill dutyfinder lol?

Will instakill pretty much everything that requires team coordination. Adding deleveling to the jump rope, that's interesting.

[Niiro]

...Yes?

Bit of a pointless conversation then, we could go on all day about stuff that exists in other games.

The devs of this game have shown little intent on making exploration a challenge.

[Elcura]

You mean like we normally do? But hey, just because other games can do it doesn't mean XIV can't. Right?

The devs of this game have shown little intent on making exploration a challenge.

Yeah I know, the point is I'm saying that is a much better solution to exploration needs than MAKE STRONG MONSTER ON MAP. If you can't have ideal, don't settle for a mediocre solution (which...is being generous). If the maps look nice and have what they need then that's fine. But suddenly monsters appear and all that is supposed to be better? I don't buy it.

[Damane]

Have you ever done any actual exploring? Or do you just have 0 imagination?

imho best solution would be something in between as i said, you cant just run through but you also shouldnt die solo. I think being able to solo 2-3 mobs at teh same time is fine when you run through, haveing more then 2-3 adds ----> death. thats a fair balance. Its just absurd to be able to run through everythign with your mount atm. However, once you reached the other side there needs to be a telepoint. otherwise this will get very fast very furstrating.

[Karbuncle]

I don't want this progression system to last either but I'd rather not have archaic things return for no reason other than nostalgia. If they're going to add difficulty and challenge I'd rather they focused that effort on making better raids rather than figuring out how to balance open-world mobs to be threatening but not too threatening.

Just because something is old, or "archaic", doesn't mean its only value is nostalgia. Newer isn't always better (Though I do understand older isn't always better either). I like the concept of raids but as the focused and nearly only means of progression it will get dull, even to people who enjoy it.

I respect that you enjoy open world being a waiting room for raid content, but I, and a good portion of others, would like something a bit more than that. For all the shit we give XI its still alive today, and doing at least well enough to support its development costs. I don't ever want a direct copy and paste but can it be so hard for the dev team of XIV to think of something the open world could have? I mean, even Elder scrolls online managed to make decent open world content in the form of treasure chests. GW2 does this as well, jumping puzzles, daily rewards from big world events, etc. These things would be nice.

I.E more of Behemoth/Odin type events but more thought out and better rewards, open world individual chests with Jumping puzzle (Even flying puzzle) mechanics, Would you see that as a positive?

Daily individual Chests for jumping puzzles/flying puzzles/etc
Daily rewards for big open world events like Odin/behemoth but more thought out (can add unique and rare synth drops to them, even *sigh* the current tokens)

There's a lot of potential for interesting, exploration rewarding, open world mechanics... everything doesn't need to be a raid.

[Sho]

what does define that?

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...9/Aquarius.jpg

Anyways, nostalgia or no, don't act as if you motherfuckers won't play XIV regardless if they don't appeal to your individual desires. Random 1-3 shot mobs be damned.

You'll all be back. Because it's a decent game. Because you love it.

:kappa:

[solracht]

I think one of the problems with designing a "dangerous" open world for this game is that danger is very relative to player power, and player power increases significantly every patch. Sure, they could make enemies threatening in 3.0 for a fresh 60, but they won't be threatening once you get geared up, and plowing through them will be even easier in 3.2 when ilevel goes through the roof (especially if they're adding two raid difficulties now). By 3.4, they'll be just laughable.

What do the developers do in this situation? There are obviously a lot of solutions but the ones I can think of don't feel feasible nor worth the development cost (and would definitely take time away from developing the main content, ie: raids). As long as power creep is a thing and the bulk of the endgame is instanced, it's not going to work out.

[Akiyama]

This conversation about no mobs that instant-kill you and how flying mounts ruin exploration and all this bullshit are coming from people who probably afk randomly out in fields anyway or teleport to literally every location they're going to.

It's a stupid conversation. How about we wait and see what they do with the flying system, where we can go, etc etc, and judge then vs spitballing dumb ideas now?

[Karbuncle]

I think one of the problems with designing a "dangerous" open world for this game is that danger is very relative to player power, and player power increases significantly every patch. Sure, they could make enemies threatening in 3.0, but they won't be threatening in 3.2 when ilevel goes through the roof (especially if they're adding two raid difficulties now) and they'll be laughable by 3.4.

What do the developers do in this situation? There are obviously a lot of solutions but the ones I can think of don't feel feasible nor worth the development cost (and would definitely take time away from developing the main content, ie: raids). As long as power creep is a thing and the bulk of the endgame is instanced, it's not going to work out.

Well, they'd still hit pretty hard. Even in I.lv 130 gear, enemies in the earlier level 50 dungeons still hit pretty hard. We kill them significantly faster, but our DEF values don't go up real high compared to our other stats. So they'll still pose a risk in damage but we'll be able to kill them faster and in turn take out a few more if we get swamped.

I'm getting ahead of myself, you are mostly correct, with the Power creep I.lv design, it will be difficult to maintain any real sense of threat past a few patches.

Anyways, nostalgia or no, don't act as if you motherfuckers won't play XIV regardless if they don't appeal to your individual desires. Random 1-3 shot mobs be damned.

You'll all be back. Because it's a decent game. Because you love it.

I know I'll be playing for at least some time longer, but I do continually find myself growing less and less motivated to cap out Poetics/etc per week.

This conversation about no mobs that instant-kill you and how flying mounts ruin exploration and all this bullshit are coming from people who probably afk randomly out in fields anyway or teleport to literally every location they're going to.

You might not be reading the same topic I am.

[Akiyama]

No; just some of the general conversation's been about why it isn't dangerous to explore anymore, and how it should be.. no? Or just exploration in general? Just not the kind of game this is, and that was my point. With the ability to teleport close to pretty much every location out there versus FFXI and having to use Teleports to get you not-really-as-close.. which would you rather have to get things done quickly?