FFXIV 3.0 : Heavensward - Expansion Information and Discussion

[Deadgye]

No, it would not.

Unless you think getting an i120 body piece the first week of FCoB would be useless (and another 120 piece the second week, and third, etc).

In which case you're just a moron.

You went so far beyond unable to read you went in the opposite direction of what I even said.

[Spider-Dan]

Everyone is aware of how things work currently, and mostly why they work that way. The whole point of the counter-argument is that things COULD and SHOULD be different. Vertical progression isn't intended to go backwards.

If one wants to argue that progression shouldn't go backwards, then one shouldn't confuse the issue by proposing a solution that primarily addresses a completely different concern (i.e. weekly gates are too slow).

As I already suggested, if you move CT to the even-numbered patch and don't release left-side tome armor (and CT upgrade mats) until the odd-numbered patch, then the "backwards progression" objection is resolved. But if your real goal is just to collect gear more quickly so you can stop playing earlier, this doesn't help you.

If your argument is really that they should let you get gear faster and then add more new content to keep you busy after you've exhausted the existing stuff, then make that case. But don't hide behind "backwards progression makes the content useless" when that isn't actually the problem. The backward progression argument stopped being relevant as soon as they added upgrade mats to CT.

[Elcura]

You went so far beyond unable to read you went in the opposite direction of what I even said.

A lot of that going around from the usual suspects no less.

[Deadgye]

I just don't understand how that was even a response, lol. Put me at a complete loss of words. First off, you already get i120 gear when fcob was released. Second off, how would releasing CT before coil result in you only getting i120 gear right when coil comes out, you'd already have it. And then finally none of that would even matter to the grouping of people I specified, the ones who can't even clear coil after WoD was released.

Although, crafting gear being made useless if ct was first is a valid point.

[ronin sparthos]

God fucking forbid you have to actually play the game. I feel bad if you can't manage to log in at least twice a week to make a cap that takes about an hour worth of effort.

It has nothing to do with playing the game, this is nonsensical. Perhaps you don't want to do tomes when you login 3hr/day. Perhaps you want to craft. Or Gold Saucer. Or level up a new job. Or HELM.

There's no reason for the 450/wk cap not to rollover. You can either meet caps weekly or let it compound, eventually becoming obsolete.

[Deadgye]

I wish I could cap in only 2 hours, also rollovers would be nice. I want that now so I never get screwed with being 3 away from cap and having to do a last minute hard mode.

[Elcura]

I just don't understand how that was even a response, lol. Put me at a complete loss of words. First off, you already get i120 gear when fcob was released. Second off, how would releasing CT before coil result in you only getting i120 gear right when coil comes out, you'd already have it. And then finally none of that would even matter to the grouping of people I specified, the ones who can't even clear coil after WoD was released.

Although, crafting gear being made useless if ct was first is a valid point.

I can't tell if you're talking to me (suppose you are) but if you are then...I've already answered that? Like I said, lots of "unable to read" going around.

I just don't understand

Name of your theme song?

[octopus]

I would love the beastman dailies allowance to rollover like levequests already do. Don't really care either way about the weekly caps, I already hit it every week.

[Niiro]

Leves used to work like dailies in ye olde 1.0 (think it was every 32 hrs or something).

No one liked that shit so they made them accumulate over time.

They bring dailies back in 2.0 and people don't like it (again).

[Deathbringer]

Whens ZNMs? :/

[ronin sparthos]

Whens ZNMs? :/

Absolute Virtue for raid content! Bonus points if he fucks with your camera as a mechanic.

[Ramset]

If one wants to argue that progression shouldn't go backwards, then one shouldn't confuse the issue by proposing a solution that primarily addresses a completely different concern (i.e. weekly gates are too slow).

As I already suggested, if you move CT to the even-numbered patch and don't release left-side tome armor (and CT upgrade mats) until the odd-numbered patch, then the "backwards progression" objection is resolved. But if your real goal is just to collect gear more quickly so you can stop playing earlier, this doesn't help you.

If your argument is really that they should let you get gear faster and then add more new content to keep you busy after you've exhausted the existing stuff, then make that case. But don't hide behind "backwards progression makes the content useless" when that isn't actually the problem. The backward progression argument stopped being relevant as soon as they added upgrade mats to CT.

On phone sorry for long quote too annoying to edit....

I didn't say anything about weekly gates being too slow, and I agree your proposed solution for CT/time gear would work. And still I see a lot of folks operating under the premise that time rewards and ilvl rewards would be the same in 3.0. It's reasonable to apply past knowledge to make assumptions, but I'm looking forward to 3.0 hoping some of this changes.

My part of the backwards profession argument lies less in the gear that is provided, and more around the fact that it's dumb face roll. Yes I think/have said that dropping lower ilvl after Coil is out is stupid and backwards, but it's more the fact that it doesn't do anything for your progression if you're already clearing Coil, thus backwards. Yes it's true that it's come to be by design that this allows other players to catchup, but that's why we've talked about bringing 24 man raid to even numbered patches anyway, simultaneous progression. To your point about upgrade mats in CT....Twine (the REAL upgrade mat) wasn't added to WoD for weeks. Taking into account that everyone was already spamming hunts to get Twines, this addition was almost useless in the grand scheme. Honestly, it helped me because I hate hunts, so it's another option, but my problem lies with the system as a whole. Things just shouldn't be this backwards.

Finally I just wanted to say that my goal is not to gear up as quickly as possible just so I can stop playing sooner. Ultimately I want this game to have a better designed progression model which benefits everyone equally at the same time. What that might be, I don't know, I've only just provided some ideas. We probably can't all agree on a perfect solution. I just think the current implementation is lacking.

[Lyall]

re: Backwards progression - It isn't backwards if you aren't doing coil. There's plenty of folks seeing their first 130 pieces thanks to the weekly, or people who didn't grind seeing 120 due to WoD. At least among the casuals I know.

re: CT first - Does anyone know what the patch schedule would have been like if they managed to get CT into the game at launch? Would 2.1 have been more coil, or would that have held ST? I only ask because leapfrogging CT>Coil in "order" would cause a waterfall of tears when Coil gear got outdated by casual 24-faceroll content 3 months later. If it went Launch CT80/Coil90 > CT100 > Coil 110 > CT 120 > Coil 130 we'd be on patch 2.5 without anything to mention besides Gold Saucer. Hypothetically, anyway, there's a lot of what-if here.

Most of the arguments for/against "backwards" progression is being made by the people it doesn't pertain to. If you were farming T13 before 2.5, your opinion has minimal impact on the folks still struggling with T9, i.e. the majority of the subscriber base.

[Karbuncle]

Then maybe a better solution would be not shit itemization/lazywayout MMO I.lv progression.

No? I'll go sit on my lawn with my cane then.

[Kaslo]

Clearly the answer was to use gear progression where you stop caring about playing once you get a Riddle. #ffxilogic

[ronin sparthos]

Then maybe a better solution would be not shit itemization/lazywayout MMO I.lv progression.

No? I'll go sit on my lawn with my cane then.

What I'd do for some talent trees or some way of customizing jobs within boundaries.

XIV has played it safe thus far, avoiding serious balancing issues a la XI but it can only go so far with this vanilla itemization.

[Karbuncle]

Clearly the answer was to use gear progression where you stop caring about playing once you get a Riddle. #ffxilogic

Can't take your troll level srsly when you spell Ridill wrong.

[ronin sparthos]

THROW SOME RIDILLS ON SOME SHIT. JUST GOT AN EBODY AND A PAIR GAITERS.

[Kaslo]

Can't take your troll level srsly when you spell Ridill wrong.

You don't troll correctly unless you misspell stuff to the point people get pissed

[Deathbringer]

THROW SOME RIDILLS ON SOME SHIT. JUST GOT AN EBODY AND A PAIR GAITERS.

$14.95 :kappa: