FFXIV 3.0 : Heavensward - Expansion Information and Discussion

[Sho]

"They" obviously being Yoshi and company. Who else would I be talking about? What does CT having...wait, did you just say near decent and near constant? That's...not a thing. CT, like everything falls under the pattern of being new, being shiny and having some fun, interesting fights. Like all things, this fades away into obscurity.

Except none of the iterations never really faded into obscurity at all. Every iteration of CT was well queued up into it's next iteration, so I have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, they were shiny new areas in the beginning, but that really didn't stop people from queuing for them 2 months after the fact.

How can you say it wasn't a bad situation when they outright said they didn't intend for CT to be released after coil, but they had no choice because it was too difficult? If you feel that was ideal then good for you, but you're only saying that because we can only see this implementation of coil and that's all you have to go on.

Because it wasn't a bad situation at all. If you want to be hung up on the fact they changed their minds on how CT was going to work, that's fine and dandy, but don't act like it didn't turn out to be successful for them in the end regardless (which is what really matters).

I've said it before, but people lack imagination and can only see the carrot that's put in front of them. That's fine and all but come on.

And lol @ popularity of CT over coil. You realise that's because CT is easy and Coil is actually challenging? Is that even a real thought?

Not even sure what you're saying here. You really must not realize the number of casuals and mid-tier players that don't do Coil at all after release over people who do CT after release at all. I'm not discussing the fact that Coil is harder than CT, it's pretty obvious to anyone with a brain to see that. It's like you're fabricating subtier strawman arguments to challenge the obvious.

What's the purpose of any conversation that isn't literal and factual? Well I dunno, maybe thinking about new ideas and implementations is fun, maybe prophetic and maybe just wishful thinking. I get you're a boring no imagination type but saying the ideas were bad just because you disagree with them (since I've seen no actual arguments for why they were bad other than I DON'T LIKE THAT WAAAAH). You like the status quo, good for you. I don't, thus I imagine a better scenario and hope that in the future something like that happens.

Now we get to the baseless name calling and mudslinging. I did tell you the reasons why they were bad ideas, and had my thought coincide with Spider-Dan and Lucavi's -- the alternative ideas are bad because it does not take into account their release cycle; people would frontload all of their gaming in a short time and burn themselves out and furthermore not play at all. SE is in the business of making money, and you do not make money when people are not playing and cancelling subscriptions. This method of thought literally goes into every bit of planning for a team who creates an MMO that's pay-to-play. "How do we keep them playing until the next patch?" "How do we keep the carrot on the string?"

By the way, I don't care at all for status quo, but I have great respect for anyone who can make it work and make it profitable, which is what we see in Yoshi-P leading his FFXIV team. The "better scenario" that you are clamoring for will more than likely come to pass now regardless. ARR is successful and has passed it's 4 million mark, Yoshi-P has been promoted for his efforts, and they have buzz going for their first expansion. Everyone will start to see a gradual change from status quo to something more original now, because they no longer have anything to prove to the themselves, their subscribers, or the media.

And what bright ideas do you have exactly that you could give to us bland and timid masses? It's one thing to criticize others who critic bad ideas, but you should give your own if you are so easily apt to hop on people who offer up their opinions.

And what about having CT before Coil makes the pyramid invalid? It still makes previous content easier while also easing players into harder content (or giving them options leading to it), but you want to deny that would help. That's fine too.

It makes it invalid because it would have been on the same difficulty thereabouts. Coil is supposed to be at the top of the pyramid; their earlier concept of CT was literally just a sidepath to doing Coil, but with the same exact difficulty, if not harder. They pared this back and specifically lowered the difficulty in tandem. They even stated as much a long time ago.

And how can you possibly know that? Holy shit are you from the alternate future where CT was released before Coil and FFXIV is a dead game because of it? Yeah, people talk a lot of shit but this has to take the cake. Guess what people who do coil would do? The same as they did before. Guess what people who don't do coil would do? Same as before except maybe they might give coil a shot because they aren't horrendously behind and have decent gear. Ultimately we can't know any of this that's why it's hypothetical.

I know this because I can dare to imagine the thought process that they would have if go about planning how they want the game to go about. They more than likely looked at all of the options (including yours) and came to the conclusion that setting CT after Coil with an ultimately lower iLvL (to build to Coil) would be a good idea, considering their playerbase, sub numbers, number of people clearing Coil, patch timeline and other number of factors -- their best way to stretch the content.

We love to talk as if developers are completely stupid or clueless when it comes to making/expanding an MMO, however it's really quite the opposite. Moreso than this, FFXIV's devs are a cut above.

Again, if it isn't reality then it isn't worth considering to you. Guess what coil players want to do, they want to beat/clear coil! The gear that drops is a bonus and only furthers your ability to beat the entire thing. If I could get 130 from WoD I would still want my 130 from Coil and I would still want my 130 from Poetics.

Holy shit, that's kind of like a choice. Apparently that will blow my mind as a coil player.

I'm not going to justify this with a long response, because here you are starting to delve into the realm of stupidity and snide remarks instead of attempting to hold cordial conversation like your previous quotes.

So instead I will make fun of you as a whining baby to close out. What a baby, stop crying about WoD (CT)! If you don't like what they did complain elsewhere! Or quit! Minus 1 person surely won't hurt their sub count. :kappa:

---

I think the only role with gearing "complexity" is tanks, and that's because of the benefit of STR over VIT once you hit a certain HP ceiling.

Yeah bro, that's the point I was making overall. There really isn't anything complex to gearing in FFXIV, as per what they wanted. The focus for most people is to simply learn what they are doing in a fight and learn changing phases, where to stand, etc. It's a big difference over FFXI, where you had to have gear for spells, gear for WSes, gear for Utsusemi, gear for tanking, evasion, etc.. then on top of that learn boss phases if any, Skillchain order, when to Magic Burst, and other shit like that. You know how it was, bro. Far less micro-managing of your character and more focus on the battle.

[Adajer]

So many multi quotes

[Taint]

I can't trudge through the brain damage.

But did Yoishi say that the gap in the ilvl between Hard and Normal Alexander will be wider this time around to allow more additional events between the two?


Like

Normal Alexander i140
Hard Alexander i170

Leaving 30 ilvls between for content and upgrades.

[Elcura]

I am master of multiquotes.

Except none of the iterations never really faded into obscurity at all. Every iteration of CT was well queued up into it's next iteration, so I have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, they were shiny new areas in the beginning, but that really didn't stop people from queuing for them 2 months after the fact.

You're completely missing the point here which isn't surprising. I'm saying that at the end of patch cycle, things are less lively and when new versions of content are released the old versions fade away. Is CT as popular with ST and WoD around? Nope. The only way to get old content to be meaningful is to give us a reason to do it (hiya weekly).

That you have no idea what I'm talking about is basically what you were saying about being hardheaded and not willing to listen. Whoops.

Because it wasn't a bad situation at all. If you want to be hung up on the fact they changed their minds on how CT was going to work, that's fine and dandy, but don't act like it didn't turn out to be successful for them in the end regardless (which is what really matters).

Who's hung up about anything? Stop assuming I feel or think things I haven't even remotely said or alluded to. Again, I've already covered this if you would actually read.

Not even sure what you're saying here. You really must not realize the number of casuals and mid-tier players that don't do Coil at all after release over people who do CT after release at all. I'm not discussing the fact that Coil is harder than CT, it's pretty obvious to anyone with a brain to see that. It's like you're fabricating subtier strawman arguments to challenge the obvious.

You're not sure because you refuse to read and comprehend someone else's point (again). "You must not realise" is funny as hell when you're making just as many assumptions without actual proof. I know that more people would do CT than coil, it's easier, more accessible content. That's a no brainer so why are you even talking about it?

Difficulty is linked to how many people take part in an activity. That's what I'm saying, but I suppose you're not even sure about that, are you?

Now we get to the baseless name calling and mudslinging. I did tell you the reasons why they were bad ideas, and had my thought coincide with Spider-Dan and Lucavi's -- the alternative ideas are bad because it does not take into account their release cycle; people would frontload all of their gaming in a short time and burn themselves out and furthermore not play at all. SE is in the business of making money, and you do not make money when people are not playing and cancelling subscriptions. This method of thought literally goes into every bit of planning for a team who creates an MMO that's pay-to-play. "How do we keep them playing until the next patch?" "How do we keep the carrot on the string?"

Again, "the ideas are bad because we don't like it!" You're assuming this method is bad based on nothing. It's actually nothing! How does your idea (which isn't even an idea, just yelling that nothing could, should or will ever change) suggest that players would be more or less burned out?

How do you know, are you a prophet from another timeline or something? You're assuming a different cycle would fail for no significant reason other than it's been done one way so fuck all the others. Laughable. It's hypothetical because you cannot prove anything you want to bold so have fun with your assumptions and we'll have fun with ours.

By the way, I don't care at all for status quo

Wow, it certainly doesn't sound like that.

but I have great respect for anyone who can make it work and make it profitable, which is what we see in Yoshi-P leading his FFXIV team. The "better scenario" that you are clamoring for will more than likely come to pass now regardless. ARR is successful and has passed it's 4 million mark, Yoshi-P has been promoted for his efforts, and they have buzz going for their first expansion. Everyone will start to see a gradual change from status quo to something more original now, because they no longer have anything to prove to the themselves, their subscribers, or the media.

Christ are you serious? This isn't even the point, no one is asking for what is to have been different all along, we're simply thinking about how it could have been different or better which apparently ties some panties in a knot.

And what bright ideas do you have exactly that you could give to us bland and timid masses? It's one thing to criticize others who critic bad ideas, but you should give your own if you are so easily apt to hop on people who offer up their opinions.

That's so far from the point I don't even

It makes it invalid because it would have been on the same difficulty thereabouts. Coil is supposed to be at the top of the pyramid; their earlier concept of CT was literally just a sidepath to doing Coil, but with the same exact difficulty, if not harder. They pared this back and specifically lowered the difficulty in tandem. They even stated as much a long time ago.

It wouldn't have been on the same difficulty because they never intended CT to be as hard or harder than coil. It would have been the CT we've always known but you know...there before coil. They lowered the difficulty because it was overtuned and that wouldn't be fun for 24 randoms banding together. CT was never supposed to be like coil.

I know this because I can dare to imagine the thought process that they would have if go about planning how they want the game to go about. They more than likely looked at all of the options (including yours) and came to the conclusion that setting CT after Coil with an ultimately lower iLvL (to build to Coil) would be a good idea, considering their playerbase, sub numbers, number of people clearing Coil, patch timeline and other number of factors -- their best way to stretch the content.

We love to talk as if developers are completely stupid or clueless when it comes to making/expanding an MMO, however it's really quite the opposite. Moreso than this, FFXIV's devs are a cut above.

The reason CT wasn't at release was again, because it was too difficult and needed further balancing so they held back. It has nothing to do with what you said, which is funny. But hey, I guess you do have some imagination even if it is going in the wrong direction.

And no one is suggesting these developers are stupid or clueless. Well, AFAIK.

I'm not going to justify this with a long response, because here you are starting to delve into the realm of stupidity and snide remarks instead of attempting to hold cordial conversation like your previous quotes. So instead I will make fun of you as a whining baby to close out. What a baby, stop crying about WoD (CT)! If you don't like what they did complain elsewhere! Or quit! Minus 1 person surely won't hurt their sub count. :kappa:

Wait, this is what crosses the line? Hilarious that mentioning I'd like choice and options is delving into the realm of stupidity and snide remarks. Are you really so offended by coil players? I mean I didn't say anything nearly as stupid as that last sentence but hey.

[Sho]

Son, you win. I'm not multiquoting anymore for the sake of argument on MMO content. I have a cat to pet and a car to tune today.

[Ramset]

Broken. Record.

[Elcura]

Son, you win. I'm not multiquoting anymore for the sake of argument on MMO content. I have a cat to pet and a car to tune today.

Aww how cute. Well I have nothing better to do at work so that's a shame.

[Voyage1970]

I can't trudge through the brain damage.

But did Yoishi say that the gap in the ilvl between Hard and Normal Alexander will be wider this time around to allow more additional events between the two?


Like

Normal Alexander i140
Hard Alexander i170

Leaving 30 ilvls between for content and upgrades.

As far as I know/read they haven't even confirmed what exactly the difference in gear is going to be for Normal/Hard mode. In the interview he implies they are still trying to figure out how exactly to make the Hard mode stuff desirable without making it too overpowering. I think the only idea he gave a bit of feedback on was having the Hard mode gear be a different palette set/dye-able or making Hard mode simply have better drop rates.

Edit: Solracht posted it before, here. PlaystationLifeStyle Interview

PSLS: With the new raid Alexander, there is going to be two different difficulties in which you can fight him. Will there be a difference in rewards for each tier? And if so, what would they be?

NY: Of course, otherwise no one would attempt the hard more (laughs).

With that being said, with the design or the look of the gear we don’t want to isolate the casual players who want to attempt the raid, so we want them to get the reward as well. So in terms of how the gear or item drops would look, they would be the same or similar. But, of course we want to have an appropriate reward for the hard mode as well, so we might make it so that the player can color coordinate the gear that drops, or by making the rate in which items drop would be higher, or there might be an added effect to the stronger items that drop, or any sort of element that would clearly distinguish it for hard mode. Of course, there will be a difference there.

With the hard mode, Yoshida-san recommends people to be prepared, because we are going to make it hard. It is going to be harder than the Baphomet dungeon, so be prepared.

[Sho]

Aww how cute. Well I have nothing better to do at work so that's a shame.

I promise the next time we have clashing ideals we can go toe-to-toe with the multiquotes on the most frivolous of discussing points.

[Gulkeeva]

I see the excitement of 3.0 has turned into a quote competition of epic proportions >.> Maybe we need a quote limit...

*ahem* anyway
I'm hoping in the next live letter, there are more details on personal airships, pricing of the airships. and the specialty crafting. Like how many specialty crafts can we have, and can it be changed.

Also curious if there will still be fates on the floating islands, if anything special is required to go lv 51+ (hopefully no ffxi limit break nonsense) and details on the final 2.5 series patch.. such as any special title, or items for being part of the event.

[Shenrien]

I'm hoping in the next live letter, there are more details on personal airships, pricing of the airships. and the specialty crafting. Like how many specialty crafts can we have, and can it be changed.

We can purchase more retainers at an additional monthly cost, they'll make it so you can purchase up to two additional specialty for crafts and one additional specialty gathering if they decide to go the route of gating people from accessing multiple specialty crafts.

[Eurell]

if anything special is required to go lv 51+ (hopefully no ffxi limit break nonsense)

Not expecting it at all, but would have loved a new Maat fight lol

[Spider-Dan]

How can you possibly determine whether this implementation was good without discussing what it is currently?

Err, because we know what it is currently. I'd be surprised if anyone arguing this didn't. But all you want to say is CT is like THIS and we fucking know. Thanks.

The ENTIRE POINT is that we disagree on what it is currently. You (plural) are claiming that CT gear drops are already useless on release (they aren't, for most players) and that CT has long queues (it doesn't) because no one wants to do backward progression (which upgrade mats are not).

Alternately, you are on some irrelevant BS tangent about what CT was Originally Intended For, which no one cares about. This isn't the Constitution; no one cares about the founders' intent. The currently existing implementation of CT is perfectly functional and serves a useful, popular purpose... which in the context of this thread topic means that if 3.0 has another raid which serves the same purpose (sidegrades to and upgrades for token gear), it is likely to also be useful, popular content.

[The Stig]

I was rewatching some footage, I couldn't tell by the video (maybe the camera angle/light was a bit odd) but is the new DRG armor purple or blue?

[Zzsark]

Re Matt Fight: As long as no stupid low drop rate item needed to be obtained before hand I would tend to agree.

[ronin sparthos]

I don't see a problem with a genkai quest. Even an eyewink to Maat would put a smile on my face.

"Not this Shit Again"
*Quest Accepted Music*

Re: Crafting

Please. PLEASE. Reduce the number of useless drops in this game via crafts. It's embarrassing how many items have no functional purpose. I'm not buying Yoshidas bullshit on fishing either. It's a crap excuse.

[Destinye]

so we might make it so that the player can color coordinate the gear that drops, or by making the rate in which items drop would be higher, or there might be an added effect to the stronger items that drop, or any sort of element that would clearly distinguish it for hard mode. Of course, there will be a difference there.

If they do bring back some actual weapon and armor design in terms of stats that would be amazing. Hard Mode dropping something that actually enhances your job? Like the relics in 1.x? Or the AF in 1.x? That would be great and makes it far more lucrative to do instead of the casual mode. The people who "OMG I JUST WANT STORY MODE!" will have normal, and people who care about progression and furthering their character will do Hard Mode for the better shit. Seems win-win.

Since let's be real - Unless you're doing high end raid content, you literally have only 1 reason to wanting to be max ilvl, just to see the high ilvl next to your character, otherwise you being ilvl169 on content designed for ilvl95 as that's the only thing you "care to do" does nothing.

[Gulkeeva]

Not expecting it at all, but would have loved a new Maat fight lol

Have a feeling maat will make an appearance somewhere, just to troll ffxi players.

[The Stig]

Have a feeling maat will make an appearance somewhere, just to troll ffxi players.

Level 50 genkai quest: "obtain a (job)'s testinomy from fates"
0.05% drop rate

[Niiro]

Have a feeling maat will make an appearance somewhere, just to troll ffxi players.