Thread: FFXIV 3.0 : Heavensward - Expansion Information and Discussion    

Originally Posted by Cutriss

The MSQ will go through 3.0 but one has to wonder if they can expect new players to climb such a long ladder to go through 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.55, and all of 3.x, just to play Garlean Iron Sky or whatever 4.x is called. Just seems like you'll probably ward off customers by doing that.

I believe the answer to this is "The game is still a Final Fantasy title and our players will play it expecting the type of story FF games deliver. Because of this, they will need to play through the story line just as if it was any other Final Fantasy game."

Originally Posted by Cutriss

While completion of 2.0 is required for Heavensward, I have to wonder if they'd do the same thing for 4.0. XI didn't require you to finish RotZ to do CoP, or to do WotG, only specific bonus quests/missions. The MSQ will go through 3.0 but one has to wonder if they can expect new players to climb such a long ladder to go through 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.55, and all of 3.x, just to play Garlean Iron Sky or whatever 4.x is called. Just seems like you'll probably ward off customers by doing that. Do I care about that? Only in so far as it influences the longevity/viability of the business model, otherwise, bring it on.

This rambling diatribe (partially influenced by being on hold on a customer support line) is motivated by the earlier call-back to PM6-4's difficulty. 6-4 wasn't an obstacle to playing WotG per se, just for finishing CoP and doing Sea. That flexibility affords the dev team the ability to make a hard fight that doesn't prevent players from advancing.

Well, if they truly do intend to take off the kid gloves for 3.0, maybe there's hope for the future, but time will tell.

Remains to be seen. The way I see it, they initially designed 2.X to be accessible to everyone right off the bat (remember how they marginalized 1.X legacy players?), but were wholly caught off guard when the game turned out to be a large success at the end of the day. So instead of doing bolder things with the game, they just kept 2.X pretty status quo -- still accessible to everyone, but made it story-driven by gating content behind level 50 and further content behind patches. And they've retained numbers because of it.

I'm guessing 3.0 will continue the trend initially, but start to break away from this by 3.1 and subsequent patches up into 4.0. The way they talk about Alexander Story & Savage, then additional CT-like content, they really want to make the difference between hardcore players and casuals more pronounced over all by setting the trend immediately. Instead of a specific piece of content separating hardcore from casual, they will show this distinction in the quality of drops that will be obtained (for example, beating Alexander Story will drop say, i140 gear, while beating Alexander Savage will drop i180 gear... something to that effect).

As for further storyline content, that would depend on if they want to resolve everything by the end of the 3.X, or start a completely new story with 4.0 that would work completely outside of the current story. Them doing this does allow for for a broader range of possibilities, FFXIV being a storyline MMO, it would be harder to implement, unless of course they choose to create more new jobs and low/mid tier areas to level up and progress in.

Originally Posted by Hiryo

I believe the answer to this is "The game is still a Final Fantasy title and our players will play it expecting the type of story FF games deliver. Because of this, they will need to play through the story line just as if it was any other Final Fantasy game."

I agree. Main storyline content should never be so prohibitive as to deny the casual player the opportunity to experience said story. Raids are different and have always been different. Any story with those is generally considered a bonus and sometimes isn't even goddamn canon (these rare times were annoying as all hell).

Everyone knows the juiciest bits of story lore are always locked behind the tough content anyway. Coil has always done a good job of delivering a few "oh shit" moments each time you clear the final battle of each tier. I still remember flipping out after seeing Bahamut's giant fucking head in T5.

I just like the part of SoF where Vishap's model doesn't seem to disappear anymore when you're meleeing under him.

One-shotted it with four beginners before third tower. Boss was down to 40% after the first Dragonkiller landed, so uh...yeah. Foot stomps do about half the damage they used to (2000-2500'ish compared to 4k). Fight is still fucking long though with your average DF DPS.

Originally Posted by Voyage1970

Pretty much how I feel. It also makes their decision to limit Machinist/Dark Knight/Astrologian to level 30 kinda asinine given that you have to be 50 just to participate in the story missions that are apparently now required to unlock the jobs. Any new players that want to level one of the three new jobs as their first job are shit out of luck and the game isn't really complicated enough that anyone who has gotten to level 50 can't figure out the basic rotation of any job in the game, barring terribads of course but no amount of forced leveling will fix inherent stupidity. Ishgard story should be locked behind 2.0 Story progression but any job quests or simply access to the city itself should be open for anyone.

Just means that they are using the new jobs as incentive to buy HEAVENSWARD. Not that incentive was needed, typically people purchase expansions anyways.

i really really really doubt the heavensward areas are gated behind the MSQ. only the Story will be gated behind the MSQ most likely and maybe some few trials/raids.

I think you should do the main story to access the new areas because otherwise it doesn't make sense. There has to be a reason why we can suddenly get to places we couldn't get to before. Also these zones are going to be tougher and I assume, aimed at levels 50+. So you need to get to that point to get to them. I like things to make some (limited) sense.

People already whine about content/items being obsoleted by each patch - do you really want all 2.0 content irrelevant once Heavensward comes out? Having to do the main story line also gives structure to new players who know what they need to do when to achieve what.

MSQ req doesn't really bug me and in SE's mind I can see it being an anti-PL feature. I mean, if you read the XI section, that totally killed the game because people wouldn't know their jobs (while omitting the fact players fought the wimpiest mobs possible).

I was being somewhat sarcastic, heh. Unfortunately, people still do believe stuff like that.

I think that's part of the reason they tossed some guildhests into the MSQ, as those sub missions are supposed to be the 'proving grounds' for 14 players. The problem is that SoF would be a good raid encounter for organized beginners but a poor trial for a group that needs to assign people to do objectives outside of their job roles. There's no easy solution to bringing players to a higher level of play without them really wanting it: people would rather give up then challenge themselves.

As for MSQ grind: I think if the 2.0-2.55 MSQ post 50 with the expansion installed grants a little exp (maybe you hit 52 on the way to 3.0 and can skip some fates later ect) it will solve the issue: the post 50 content was tedious partially because you did a lot of questionable fetch quests (granted, all that footwork you did landed you some friends who would, in fact, help you bury a body) for a few gil and ever so often a materia you could pawn for more gil. The exp rewards made older quests at least feel like you were spending your time wisely.

^ I appreciate that honesty, regardless of my opinion on the actual response in question.

Quested EXP on its own wasn't enough to level, and I'm factoring in some gratuitous FATE chasing on top when I leveled my first 50. Was honestly at its worst post-45 where you're just see the red ! over story NPCs.