GamerGate thread

[Kuya]

My favorite thing is when liberal hippie douche A posts this:


when white conservative tard bitches about something.

yet liberal hippie douche doesn't take their own advice and rages.

You have a right to offend people. People have a right to tell you they're offended by what you say. But if you decide to offend someone you better make sure you have an incredibly good reason for it beyond pure bigotry.

Also, you are pro-GG and complaining about liberal hippie douches, and I believe you've expressed a few negative opinions in the other thread about feminism and trans-language. I would love it if people in GG were more open, like you, with these opinions that you are expressing. Because honestly, do you think it's just a coincidence that so many of you are critical of feminism and inclusiveness towards trans people? I feel it isn't and I would appreciate more honesty from the GG crowed.

[Ksandra]

I am not anti-feminist (I know I have said so in the past, but that was the past). However, I am still not a feminist nor will I probably ever be (because of one glaring problem completely unrelated to this who gaming thing).

[Kuya]

Well, I'm genuinely glad you no longer identify as an anti-feminist. That is progress. I am also glad that the thread was opened because I felt it was unfair that a satire piece is, suddenly, not considered legitimate in a political section full of satire pieces. But that's water under the bridge now.

[Ksandra]

Well, I'm genuinely glad you no longer identify as an anti-feminist. That is progress. I am also glad that the thread was opened because I felt it was unfair that a satire piece is, suddenly, not considered legitimate in a political section full of satire pieces. But that's water under the bridge now.

It was more because I wanted to sort out the gamergate stuff in the other thread first, but tyven promised to do it for me, so there is that.

Also, you were a bad boy about the article linking which was basically your whole post.

[Kuya]

Fair enough.

[tyven]

hi ksandra i didnt move all the posts yet cuz i selected them all at work and now im not at work. it was so many posts to select too. what a nightmare that was

[Blubbartron]

So you think that if a group is a minority, it doesn't deserve any attention?

I think your opinion is reactionary because paying more attention to women and minorities in gaming media doesn't detract from paying attention to straight white men. I also feel that your opinion is somewhat common in GG and I would appreciate it if more people from GG would own up to the fact that this is in fact how they feel and that GG isn't just about ethics in journalism but also a backlash against demands for more inclusiveness in gaming media.


I think GG is too tainted by misogynists and anti-feminists to be worth saving. I agree ethics in journalism is important, but not important enough to join sides with anti-feminists.

If GG could purge the anti-feminist and misogynist element (because i realize not everyone in it is), i would join it.

Arguing for inclusiveness is nothing more than a "muh feelings" argument. I don't waste my time yelling at the authors of all those torrid romance novels to write stuff that's more appealing to me. That's how silly it is for people to yell at game companies to make stuff more appealing to them. If you don't like what they create, then don't buy it. Nobody has to make art or entertainment that caters to everyone, and attempting to do so will only result in games becoming like movies. Dull, average, bullshit that is more likely to make a profit, and less likely to inspire or wow anyone at all. A slew of PG-13 lowest common denominator entertainment.

I would also happily call myself a feminist if they'd just purge those pesky misandrists and SJWs that use fascist tactics to silence anything that isn't in agreement with their message. Have I mentioned how funny it is that my spellcheck thinks misogynists is a word but misandrists isn't? Fuck, if that isn't telling about the nature of our society, I don't know what is. Back on topic, how about we stop latching onto labels to identify ourselves to others and instead have real conversations about what we think. I'll start:

I think what Zoe Quinn did in her personal life was egregiously distasteful and morally wrong.
I think that the journalists and other industry folks that happily promoted Zoe as a result of their relationship with her (whether romantic or otherwise) are much worse.
I think that having an industry of journalists that doubled-down and conspired to attack the people that outed their conspiracy is reprehensible.

[Correction]

I think that the journalists and other industry folks that happily promoted Zoe as a result of their relationship with her (whether romantic or otherwise) are much worse.

You still think this really happened.
Notably, you aren't even naming the 'journalists and other industry folks' guilty of this evil collusion, let alone linking to it, while happily judging a woman for doing something you don't approve of but that wasn't really any of your business.

But hey I guess I should believe you when you say you'd happily call yourself a feminist.

[Ksandra]

hi ksandra i didnt move all the posts yet cuz i selected them all at work and now im not at work. it was so many posts to select too. what a nightmare that was

now you know why I said I was going to do it after halloween rofl.

I gotta figure out how to disable a feature on my iphone. If I accidentally swipe to the right with my finger, it automatically back pages and I lose everything.

So much rage is not worth you people.

[tyven]

i thought that zoe throwing that snatch around for good reviews was debunked?

[Ksandra]

Also forgot to point out:

wait shit, is tyven a game journalist?

tvyen is pretty much the next obama unless sticking the dick in his hot wife makes him too lazy.

So

[Karbuncle]

These are far from immune to the corrupting reach of publishers.

Oops.

I thoroughly enjoy watching Jimquisition...

Anyway, I think GamerGate began at the outrage of Quinn sleeping around with journalists in order to get better reviews for her games. Rather this is true or not is up for you to decide. Since then, its become an attack on gaming journalism and the corruption within it, again, up to you to draw your conclusions on the matter. Personally, common sense will tell you all sources of news just give out information in a way that benefits their highest benefactors. Almost all news is corrupt and biased, because money talks. So I wasn't as shocked to find out a bunch of gaming journalists were all planning on how to make articles to raise sales/lower sales of games and giving good reviews for sex. I'm still upset by it, but I'm not surprised.

Unfortunately, the GamerGate torch has been taken and held more times than not by irrational fuckwits who want to use GamerGate as a soapbox for their sexist/racist/whatever thoughts to be broadcast as far as possible, especially now with how much coverage its getting. So instead of the community of GamerGate who are more just pushing for the ideals that gaming journalism should be about gamers reviewing games, and not bought reviews and shady business practices, being heard... the media focuses on the racist/sexist people who are using the "#gamergate" tag to fuel their own shit attitude towards people they hate, or using what Quinn did as "proof" "teh womenz ruin vidya games".

Either way, as it stands now GamerGate is almost successfully and fully corrupted by multiple media outlets and have been painted as the bad guys, so much so that its hard to find what it was at its core message anywhere. So maybe now, a large portion of GamerGate is subject to the loud mouth idiots with a bone to pick with (Females/Journalists/People richer than them), but it did not begin as that.

Here are the most allegedly damning specific flaws that, in my time following it, Gamergate has dug up:
Several journalists joined a mailing list
Several journalists wrote pieces either linking to or elaborating on a pair of articles that led with the phrases "end of gamers" and "gamers are over" within a short period of time

These are two of the biggest things that happened and were exposed, and they're downplayed to such an extent that a corrupt politician would blush. These were huge parts in a smear campaign to try and paint "gamers", all gamers, as sexist racist bigoted pigs who are hate filled fear mongers. Most of the didn't bother to specify the movement, just that "gamers" were getting worse and worse, all because of the attempts to expose their corruption, they began to try and ruin the credibility of those who were speaking against them... and if this thread is any evidence, its working pretty well.

Smear your enemy and your problems disappear. Oldest ploy in the book really.

Anyone can claim to be part of GamerGate, which makes it an easy target, cant blame them really when you have socially retarded folk making death threats.

[Kibble]

I think what Zoe Quinn did in her personal life was egregiously distasteful and morally wrong.
I think that the journalists and other industry folks that happily promoted Zoe as a result of their relationship with her (whether romantic or otherwise) are much worse.

That's great, but why is it that Zoe Quinn is the one getting the brunt of the assault from pro-GGers and not the journalists she slept with?

Side-note: Here's a great list of ethical concerns in video games from none other than SJW Leigh Alexander.

[tyven]

who is blubb

oh you meant blubbartron lol

[Kuya]

Arguing for inclusiveness is nothing more than a "muh feelings" argument. I don't waste my time yelling at the authors of all those torrid romance novels to write stuff that's more appealing to me. That's how silly it is for people to yell at game companies to make stuff more appealing to them. If you don't like what they create, then don't buy it. Nobody has to make art or entertainment that caters to everyone, and attempting to do so will only result in games becoming like movies. Dull, average, bullshit that is more likely to make a profit, and less likely to inspire or wow anyone at all. A slew of PG-13 lowest common denominator entertainment.

I would also happily call myself a feminist if they'd just purge those pesky misandrists and SJWs that use fascist tactics to silence anything that isn't in agreement with their message. Have I mentioned how funny it is that my spellcheck thinks misogynists is a word but misandrists isn't? Fuck, if that isn't telling about the nature of our society, I don't know what is. Back on topic, how about we stop latching onto labels to identify ourselves to others and instead have real conversations about what we think. I'll start:

I think what Zoe Quinn did in her personal life was egregiously distasteful and morally wrong.
I think that the journalists and other industry folks that happily promoted Zoe as a result of their relationship with her (whether romantic or otherwise) are much worse.
I think that having an industry of journalists that doubled-down and conspired to attack the people that outed their conspiracy is reprehensible.

First of all, I appreciate your honesty regarding your opposition to feminism and more inclusiveness in gaming media. Few people from GG are willing to admit to these opinions publically, so I really appreciate your honesty.

I think regarding the issue of inclusiveness in gaming media, it's ultimately about what's important to you and your life experiences. As a bisexual black male, I DO want to see more media that reflects my preferences and gives me options. I personally don't feel doing this negatively affects games, and I don't think you really have any objective evidence to claim otherwise.

I don't think you have to call yourself a feminist to agree with feminist ideals. I know i personally do not call myself a feminist but often agree with them anyway. I often participate along with feminists in political activism because I agree with the ultimately goal they profess. In the case of GG however, i'm not quite clear on what their main goal is, and the insistence on ethics in gaming journalism is simply starting to sound like public relations. But I suppose this goes back to being about priorities. Feminism is often allied to LGBT rights so feminism is a priority to me. If given a choice between feminism and ethics in gaming journalism, I choose the former. I believe a lot of people are starting to see it this way too, which is why GG is getting backlash. Because it's being perceived as anti-feminist and misogynist.

As for the rest of your post, it just comes off as a personal vendetta against Quinn.

[Correction]

i thought that zoe throwing that snatch around for good reviews was debunked?

It was, months ago.
It still gets parroted because ethics are more important than being accurate about anything, ever. Ethics.

[Ksandra]

fwiw I don't consider myself a part of GG, but I am vastly intrigued by it.

I think that the media has been very biased about the whole movement and I find myself defending it elsewhere on the interwebs simply because the good stuff coming from GG isn't mentioned.


It is really really hard to gauge just how much good vs. how much bad is going on and I think it safe to say there is a huge ass grand canyon of a split with the movement. Which is not surprising considering that anyone can type #gamersgate.

I don't think death threats are warranted towards anyone for any reason, though. And I think if anything this whole debacle has shown just how much internet etiquette needs to be taught. (both sides! both sides! dumb but true imo)

[tyven]

These are two of the biggest things that happened and were exposed, and they're downplayed to such an extent that a corrupt politician would blush. These were huge parts in a smear campaign to try and paint "gamers", all gamers, as sexist racist bigoted pigs who are hate filled fear mongers. Most of the didn't bother to specify the movement, just that "gamers" were getting worse and worse, all because of the attempts to expose their corruption, they began to try and ruin the credibility of those who were speaking against them... and if this thread is any evidence, its working pretty well.

Smear your enemy and your problems disappear. Oldest ploy in the book really.

Anyone can claim to be part of GamerGate, which makes it an easy target, cant blame them really when you have socially retarded folk making death threats.

so about the mailing list thing. I had read a LONG time ago that it was just a list of people on the mailing list that was exposed. Was content of communication between them also exposed that really laid out their plan for the "gamers are over attack"?

[quannum]

is resident evil 5 racist?

should that influence (how much? how little?) a reviewers opinion of the game?

[Khajit]

I don't really understand much of the entire point of this gamergate outside of the fact that everyone involved is a bad person and really don't deserve attention outside of being called dumbasses. It gives me the impression that a bunch of really bored people are trying to artificially create a controversy.