GamerGate thread

[Penthesilea]

oh my god, it was the same devs as remember me. I played that based entirely on reading a near identical article about that, and loved it. I was going to do the same thing with this when i head about, but now this just settles it. Definitely playing it, and glad they didn't give into those other publishers.

If they aren't interested because they don't think it'll make enough money, then that's fine for them, but suggesting they change the gender of the main character after the game has already been made is pretty crazy. At least with remember me, that would have totally ruined the game. Wouldn't be surprised if this one is similar.

I'm all for you buying it and supporting it. Let me know how it is, but I won't be buying just because someone said "this won't make as much money as this would" and people throw sexism temper tantrums.

As for the second part, yeah, later in the process would make changes difficult.

[RKenshin]

Frankly, I don't give a flying fuck about the revenues or the profit margins if it means perpetuating oppression.

HOLY FUCK GUYS, Can you imagine the profit margins if we still used slaves in our world economy today?! Why has no one MADE THIS SUGGESTION?!

The gender of a character in a video game is not quite the same as slavery... one is a human rights issue, the other as a form of art/entertainment.

Might have a hard time arguing that anyone's rights are being violated by not being able to play a video game with an X gender main character.

[archibaldcrane]

Just don't care. If the money says so, why not suggest the change? Also, I don't know much about the process but couldn't that have been a single take away from a slew of suggestions for the game?

While I sympathize with the "gotta make money" argument, in this case the publisher took a risk with their sexist idea and paid for it by having the game published elsewhere.

So, if the game is profitable for Sqeenix, hooray sexism loses in the marketplace, and if it doesn't, that publisher dodged a bullet.

[Penthesilea]

Yeah, I would rather the game be successful because it would show developers there's hope to be published, show publishers there's money to be made, and show gamers females can and will be great leads. But crying out about how it's oppressing women is silly.

[hey]

but I won't be buying just because someone said "this won't make as much money as this would" and people throw sexism temper tantrums.

Who asked you to?

[RKenshin]

Sqeenix seems to be much more willing, traditionally, to have female leads in their games as well. Not surprising to hear they were fine with it.

I'm all for it working out and even hope that it does (again, I side with the devs), but yeah, profit-seekers gonna profit-seek.

[NynJa]

Frankly, I don't give a flying fuck about the revenues or the profit margins if it means perpetuating oppression.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...11/964/9b5.jpg

I dont even have to caption it.

[Salodin]

Idk how its oppressive to put your money behind something proven to generate more money on average then something else. Some one insert an Inigo Montoya picture for me.

[Karbuncle]

While I sympathize with the "gotta make money" argument, in this case the publisher took a risk with their sexist idea and paid for it by having the game published elsewhere.

So, if the game is profitable for Sqeenix, hooray sexism loses in the marketplace, and if it doesn't, that publisher dodged a bullet.

Has the definition of sexism changed recently or is everything that involves choices regarding women and men sexist now?

While I cannot with 100% certain say it wasn't sexism that made the decision. I imagine it did not go like "You know, we actually hate women, and wish they would stay in the kitchen and out of our business"... and that it was a money debate/choice. Profit margins aren't sexist because sales happen to favor male leads, its just facts on how it is... and if it is sexism, it doesn't start with the publisher, it starts with the buyers, plain and simple. Perhaps this is an idiotic choice on the publishers part, which I would say so... but I mean... its not sexist.

Personally, I hope the game succeeds with flying colors. I like games with character creation, but thats harder to make stories for I guess? idk.

now if we wanna discuss why a game with Male leads sell more, that would be an interesting point. Though I'm sure it will fall nothing short of "OMG MISOGYNY". I will add to this topic though. Female leads undergo scrutiny from feminists as well, if they're even a little "sexy" or outside of the undefined and unspecific "guidelines" never set forth by feminists... they get blasted. Who needs that bad publicity? "Oh, have a scene where she loses her emotions in stress? Sexist pigs think women are weak!"... so forth... Its something to consider that portraying a female lead is more difficult because they'll be scrutinized more, even by non-gamers.

Also for what its worth, in most games I play, I usually roll a female character... Unless i have enough control over their appearance to make it how I want.

[NynJa]

No seriously, thats the best fucking business model I've ever heard of: Who cares about revenue and income?!? Its not about the money, right Joker?

[hey]

While I cannot with 100% certain say it wasn't sexism that made the decision. I imagine it did not go like "You know, we actually hate women, and wish they would stay in the kitchen and out of our business"... and that it was a money debate/choice. Profit margins aren't sexist because sales happen to favor male leads, its just facts on how it is... and if it is sexism, it doesn't start with the publisher, it starts with the buyers, plain and simple. Perhaps this is an idiotic choice on the publishers part, which I would say so... but I mean... its not sexist.

Most games are made for men -> most women are not interested in these games -> most gamers are men -> games for women don't sell well -> games for women aren't made -> women don't get into games ->

Make more games for women, and more women will start playing games. Seems pretty simple to me.

[Mazmaz]

And it doesn't really matter much about the publisher. The real problem is when people call out a company for putting only profits first resulting in damaging a community, and other people going "but why are you calling them out? they're just making profits!"

Like if people called out a company for dumping pollution in a river for profits, and others going "but why are you calling them out tho?". It's asinine how hard people apologist for companies and shoot down others for dishing out rightly deserved criticism.

[Karbuncle]

Most games are made for men -> most women are not interested in these games -> most gamers are men -> games for women don't sell well -> games for women aren't made -> women don't get into games ->

Make more games for women, and more women will start playing games. Seems pretty simple to me.

There's actually a good amount of studies that go along the lines of "gamers dont care what gender the main character is" as they usually just project themselves in the role. The only ones who care about this are those hyper genderist folk (feminist or otherwise) who want to make everything an issue on gender lines. A.K.A people who don't actually play games.

You will give me a moment, and I will find the research I am talking about... Hopefully.

But while I do, what do you mean by "make games for women"? Are you saying the lead needs to be a woman for women to care? If so, does me saying it out loud make you realize how stupid that sounds...?

And it doesn't really matter much about the publisher. The real problem is when people call out a company for putting only profits first resulting in damaging a community, and other people going "but why are you calling them out? they're just making profits!"

Like if people called out a company for dumping pollution in a river for profits, and others going "but why are you calling them out tho?". It's asinine how hard people apologist for companies and shoot down others for dishing out rightly deserved criticism.

That leap is something Mario wouldn't be able to make, even using the long jump.

[NynJa]

Like if people called out a company for dumping pollution in a river for profits, and others going "but why are you calling them out tho?". It's asinine how hard people apologist for companies and shoot down others for dishing out rightly deserved criticism.

See, except dumping pollution in a river has a massive TANGIBLE effect: the wildlife in the river die, the water becomes unsafe for consumption to the wildlife around it and they die, the pollution extends to the land around it poisoning it, etc etc etc.

Having a male protagonist has no actual TANGIBLE effects, it offers mental effects to those with a massive victim complex.

Make more games for women, and more women will start playing games. Seems pretty simple to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gone_Home
Thats what you get.

[Mazmaz]

You're right. Why did we even move on to having female actresses in movies? We should have just had men play all the female roles like in the olden days.

Oh right, we realised it was sexist.

[hey]

Do you just ignore all the studies that say "gamers dont give a fuck who they're playing as" and such, even women gamers give no fucks who the main character is, as they usually just project themselves in the role. The only ones who care about this are those hyper genderist folk (feminist or otherwise) who want to make everything an issue on gender lines.

A.K.A people who don't actually play games.

You will give me a moment, and I will find the research I am talking about.

But while I do, care to explain how the main character of a game means its for that sex? Or what your definition of "making a game for women" is?

I don't know what any of this has to do with what i said.

How many women do you think play call of duty? Compare to: how many women play dating sims with gay male characters. Men and women tend to like different things. The gender of the main character my possibly play into that, but obviously that's not the only factor.

[Karbuncle]

You will give me a moment, and I will find the research I am talking about... Hopefully.

Maybe not a good amount. Sorry, but here - :

I don't know what any of this has to do with what i said

How many women do you think play call of duty? Compare to: how many women play dating sims with gay male characters. Men and women tend to like different things. The gender of the main character my possibly play into that, but obviously that's not the only factor.

Okay, fair enough, maybe I just need to read harder. But if it doesn't have to do with what you said maybe stick to the topic at hand now and again so i can keep up ._.

So, If you will explain then, how does that relate to this particular game or even the subject at hand if all you're now addressing is making more dating sims and Farmvilles? The topic, right now, is rather a male or female lead creates more revenue for a game, and sales show that male leads sell more.

Its true certain games more commonly appeal to certain demographics, my mom loves Farmville and facebook games... she is not a gamer... And while I do occasionally (rarely mind you) hop on a facebook game or two, I do consider myself a gamer. Further, there are women who play CoD and Halo, but making Master Chief or Random-Burly-Soldier 8-A a women wouldn't make those genres appeal more to women as the game itself doesn't changes nor does what the game is about, and in most cases, people don't care who the main character is when playing the game, they are a character, and if they're likeable, they're likeable. Basically, only people who care about gender identity politics and such give a damn rather a straight male plays a female character or a female plays a burly man, they don't. Most gamers are aware the person they control has no thoughts and feelings, they are a line of code, and the idea of the game is to more or less place yourself in their shoes, they play the game, not the character.

If you watch the above video, You'll understand where I'm coming from when it comes to gender representation in game.

[Koul]

Men and women tend to like different things. The gender of the main character my possibly play into that, but obviously that's not the only factor.

With this knowledge, do you think companies would cater to said groups or consider these factors when creating their media. Because that is what's happening.

[NynJa]

You're right. Why did we even move on to having female actresses in movies? We should have just had men play all the female roles like in the olden days.

Oh right, we realised it was sexist.

Compares killing a bunch of wildlife and nature to having a male lead in a video game vs a woman lead.

#MazLogic

[BaneTheBrawler]

Nynja, Maz, you're both one snarky post away from getting bitchslapped. Contribute in a civil manner or shut the fuck up.